Client "Ownership" Problem. Uggh. Please Help.

[Preggo]

Hi, all! Great forum you have here. Need a little assistance...

I see clients at a yoga studio every once in a while. Maybe 3 massages a month. The owner and I both have brochures in the hallway of the building, outside the studio door. Got a call yesterday from a lady who had seen the studio's sign outside the building and stopped in to get some information. Nobody was at the studio, so she took both of our brochures from the table in the hall.

This woman has a 15-year-old daughter who is a competitive swimmer. The daughter has been experiencing some acute muscle pain due to her
extensive training and she needed a massage ASAP. The studio was not available for us to use last night, so she asked me to come to their home to tend to her daughter. Only about three hours passed between our initial conversation and the massage. This mom says she prefers in-home treatments because she already spends too much time driving kids around, her daughter still has homework to do after her practice, etc. and she would like to have me come by on a regular basis.

The mom and I spoke at length about the studio and the classes, I gave her the web site, etc., etc. So, while she's not a current student, and she's not interested in having her daughter massaged at the studio, I'm feeling guilty since she did get my brochure from that location. (If she were already part of that yoga community, I would have refused an in-home session and would have to done a 60/40 split with the owner. This is my standard arrangement with them.)

Because I am not the sneaky type, I explained all of this to the owner of the studio and she flipped out. She wants me to determine how she should be compensated for my visits to this client's home. I'm OK with giving her a small cut, but I don't think 40% is warranted especially if this woman never even joins as a student. So, what's fair?

This is totally unprecedented for me, so any insight would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

[Blaze]

I'd really probably not give the owner anything, but if you feel you must -


In home: I'd give her $20 on a $120 massage. (just a figure I use in my own ventures)
On $145, I give $30.

I'd treat it just like you would doing massage at a hotel with a concierge. That's a rough number on what I give.

I need to be walking out of an "on-site" with about $100.

 

[FiftySixer]

Thanks for giving me some examples to work with. I didn't think she'd expect anything, but she was nearly in hysterics. *shrug* My priority, last night, was relieving this girl of her pain. I never imagined this would turn into some big fat hairy deal.

I was also thinking, what if one of her students told my neighbor about me and my neighbor became an in-home client. The lead would also have originated from the studio, but wouldn't involve the studio any more than last night's client. I wouldn't be expected to fork over anything in that case, right?

FYI, I have to bring my table, linens, etc. to the studio every time I do a massage because they don't have their own equipment. So the arrangement kind of stinks, but I do really like and respect the yoga studio owner, so I've been sticking with it. And she lets me take classes for free, which is a nice perk.

This kind of stuff really stresses me out.

 

[kslice687]

Lemme get this straight. You have your own brochures, your own phone, your own practice, maintain your own schedule, and only use this studio on a very parttime basis? And the owner wants 40% of your outcalls? On business that you wouldn't have at the studio anyways?

Sounds like somebody is getting greedy. For 3 massages a month, are you sure this is a business relationship you want to continue?

 

[Ashlei]

Yup, that's right! I did tailor my brochures for that location to include the studio address, etc. But I do everything myself. It's just unfortunate that this lady found my brochure at the studio and not at the hair salon down the street. They don't expect a thing from me. :

 

[FootballChick]

At the very most, she's entitled to a "finder's fee" even though she didn't find the client, the client contacted you directly.

If she owns (or leases) the hallway, rather than just the studio, she is allowing you to market using her resources. (Even if such marketing is just a brochure holder on a table.) As such, she has a right, I suppose, to demand some sort of compensation, should any business result from her "efforts." This should be a one time deal. Your use of her studio on a 60/40 split is a rental arrangement, not an IC position. You are paying her a fee determined by perceneforum.xxxe of your sales, not the other way around.

If she wants an ongoing cut of your non-studio business, she will have to provide some sort of incentive... such as paying your taxes, or becoming a steady source of clients from any effort other than her little table display in the hallway.

"Liking" someone is not a very good reason to allow them to behave unprofessionally toward you. The free classes IS a nice perk, but it seems these things are clouding your business interactions. Perhaps you could solidify that arrangement so neither of you feels the other is taking advaneforum.xxxe?

 

[Jedimaster]

Thanks, BB. You've provided the objectivity I needed. Much appreciated.

 

[kiwikid]

At the very most, she's entitled to a "finder's fee" even though she didn't find the client, the client contacted you directly.

:iagree:

I don't think she should get a cut of any further visits to this client by you, but I could see a one-time fee due to the fact that the client did find you because of the advertising you have in the yoga studio.

Angie

 

[~abby~]

i don't think you owe her a dime. that's like having your business cards at running and bike shops. someone picks up your card and says "oh i got your card from Run Fast Running Store." do you give the RFR owner a cut? no.

60/40 seems really steep to me, but maybe i'm just getting a really good deal. all i get is the room. i provide every thing. i pay $10 room fee no matter how long or short the session is. if i do see a client from the facility at their home, i don't pay them.

 

[OscarMeyerRina<3]

I agree that it is a little ridiculous for the owner to expect a "cut" for the work you are performing outside of the studio. If she expects some sort of "cut" or "compensation" from a "referral" (because that is all it really is) why not give her some Massage Credit? Say for each person who mentions that they "found" you through one of YOUR brochures in HER studio, she gets X amount of Massage Time for free with you. Then that could be an incentive for her to advertise for you, without you losing money by splitting your profit with her. Of course, if she doesn't have massge appointments with you then it wouldn't work...but it does bring up the question - WHY doesn't she??? Do you participate in the Yoga she offers? Have you ever referred anyone to her? It really needs to be set on paper so that both of you don't get stressed out! Good Luck!

 

[Pompal 09.]

I think I need to clarify that I see clients in her space from time to time. She gets 40% of the fee for allowing me to use the studio. And she does, maybe every 6 weeks, pay my 60% for a massage for herself. I believe her perspective is that my brochures are at her location so that I can see clients in her space and she can make some money from that aspect of the business. After "talking" with you all, I really screwed myself in this deal. I like the flat $10 per use idea.

Now, that being said, the lady who got my brochure is not a student at the studio and has never met the owner. Just a stranger off the street. I don't think the owner should get much out of this particular deal at all.

I'm going out of town for the weekend and will address this with her again when I return. I'll continue to check in for your input. You are all so wonderful for helping me figure this mess out. 8)

 

[Max Powers]

After "talking" with you all, I really screwed myself in this deal. I like the flat $10 per use idea.

No, you didn't, 60 therapist/40 owner is pretty common, and generally regarded as reasonably fair, a $10 per use fee is rare, a great deal, but rare. Are you having to fit round other therapists using the room? If not, 60/40 and access whenever ever you get a client is pretty good, plus yoga classes for free. If it's 60/40 and you're only able to book clients Monday between 8am-11am, and noon-2 on Wednesday, or some other limited times it's not so good, but then you add the free classes..... only you know what the arrangement is really worth to you.

If you can see yourself getting busy there, it may be worth discussing putting a cap on the 40% the owner gets - eg the lesser of 40% or $100 per day (or $10 if you can negotiate that ) that way if you get super busy, you won't feel like the owner is getting all the money.

 

[SureThingBATMAN]

I agree, I don't think the 60/40 split is a bad deal at all for part-time space. I charge 20% for use of my space in my after hours, and that's for someone that I'm helping. Most by-the-hour rentals start at $10, which means a one hour session usually costs you a minimum of $15. Granted, you are having to set everything up for each session, but it's still not a bad arrangement for per-use.

Flat fee would be nice if you have different pricing schedules, a monthly cap would also be nice. For example: 40% up to $250/month maximum. The real problem is that she expects a cut of non-studio use clients.

Setting a referral fee is good. I give referral bonuses to my clients who refer, why not the yoga lady?

Gotta go, next client is here.

 

[kori p]

I think a 60/40 split is pretty common, when you're using their facilities. The justification for that usually the fact that you're using their space, their utilities, their parking, their advertising, etc, all of which they have already paid (or are paying) for.

However, since these people aren't even students or clients of the place, and wouldn't otherwise be, and they just saw your information somewhere, then I don't think you owe the owner much at all, if anything. I mean, Wal-mart used to have (and in some places, still has) a bulletin board for people to post their business cards and such. If you get a client who saw your card or brochure on Walmart's bulletin board, do you owe them anything? No. If you put a poster or something on a lamppost on a local streetcorner that the municipality/city paid to have put in, do you owe your city a cut of the proceeds from a client who found you through it? Again, no. If you wanted to be nice, you could pay the owner a one-time $20 or $30 bucks for this client and call it good. That's more than fair for this situation, in my book.

Hugs,
~Jyoti

 

[Adrian]

Are you having to fit round other therapists using the room?...If you can see yourself getting busy there...

I am the only therapist, but it's a one-room studio offering about 25 classes a week. I can only use the space when class is not in session and I have never been able to book two consecutive massages. So (and here's the self-pity talking) I have to lug my table and all of my own supplies, do a 15-minute set up including putting folding screens in front of the windows and moving a couple pieces of furniture, spend 15 minutes breaking everything down. Then go home and do laundry. For $45. I'd rather get $80-$100 to do something similar in someone's home or make that $45 at the hospital I work at where I see several patients in an evening and everything is done for me except the actual treatment.

And I do wish I could be busy there. We've been trying different marketing approaches and I attend the classes not only for the exercise, but to introduce myself to the other students and let them know I'm at their service. The clients I've seen to date have all been her students, her daughter, and herself. Maybe 16 sessions total since April. I have told numerous people about the location and have a couple of my own corporate chair clients who would like to see me at the studio due to its proximity to their office. (They've yet to schedule) So I'm willing to give up half of my private in-home fee (I charge a bit more than the studio does) to convenience my clients and bring potential yoga business to the studio. *pats self on back for being an outstanding human being* :roll:

The kicker is that she said she wants me to decide how to handle this case. She's upset and she wants ME to be the one to figure out how to make her feel better when I've done nothing wrong. Too much pressure, man!

Sorry that I'm coming off as a bit unlikeable in this post. I really am lovely. : I'm just getting riled up about the whole thing. Again, your support and advice is wonderful and I thank you!

 

[vanhammer]

Just as a point of reference, what do other MTs in your area do? What is a typical charge per session, and what is the split or rent they pay per day? Knowing that may give you a broader sense of how to arrange this business deal.

As an example, I work in a clinic with several practitioners. I do not have 24/7 access, but I don't need that much access either Our arrangement is a 60/40 with an option to rent when my client list increases. I provide my own linens and oil, etc. and any additional advertising I want to.

Everything else is provided by them- utilities, music, table, advertising, even some clients t038 It works very well for me.

Personally, I would be a bit reluctant to do all that moving and set up/tear down for only one session unless it was a home visit. But that is just me...

You have to decide if it works for you.

Oh, and I agree with the others that a one-time $10 or 20 "referral" fee :roll: is more than sufficient.