Going too deep?!?

[KaeleighDenise]

This might not be in the right place. but if it needs to be moved let me know!


I have not been a MT for very long and I thought everything was going good. Then today my boss sat me down and told me that a few people have complained that I was going to deep on them. These clients never told me anything. Even when I asked if I was going to deep (and I ask a lot because I don’t want them to be sore) they would say no it feels good or no I like that. I am very much a softy and I took this straight to the heart and maybe I shouldn’t have but I don’t want people to be sore and not try me again.
I guess what I am asking is how do you all deal with this? I would never want to hurt someone and turn them off of massage.
How do you tell if someone is hurting if they won’t say one word, I know body language but what else?

I don’t know what to do.?!


Sarah

 

[Joh]

Sarah,

Every body is different and everyone reacts to massage in different ways. Even the same person can react differently each massage to the same techniques.

IMO, you are already aware of the two main things when assessing if you are too deep or not. Body signals and checking in with the client.
If you don't already - you can try explaining to them about the soreness they may feel and to reinerate the importance to drinking water afterwards to help with the soreness.

I work towards a "good hurt", but I don't like working so deep that the client is is "bad pain". Some techniques will cause a little discomfort, but it should still remain a "Good hurt".

Here is a bit from my personal experience.
Just yesterday I went to a different therapist. Her technique was completely different from my regular therapist. While I was not in any pain during the massage, I knew I was going to be sore today and was prepared for it.
My regular therapist uses many techniques that hurt more (nothing that isn't tolerable) and I usually am not sore at all afterwards.


Hope that helps.

 

[Aye Jae]

Going too deep?!?

I guess what I am asking is how do you all deal with this? I would never want to hurt someone and turn them off of massage.
How do you tell if someone is hurting if they won’t say one word, I know body language but what else?

some people hold their breath; some flinch if the stroke is too deep.
you're requesting feedback frequently, so that is good.

are you going into to deep work too fast? that can produce the same effect. if so, just take another 30 seconds to a minute of each new body part to prepare it for the more focused, deep work.

 

[thisguy010101]

Sarah,
You have some good advice from the couple posts above.......what I am adding, and this is something that I say to new clients during the intake, and especially to massage 1st timers.........

"Please don't be afraid to tell me if something is uncomfortable, especially if it is too hard/deep; you aren't going to hurt my feelings." I may also add emphasis to that, depending on the person or my read on the situation and say, "I'm a big girl" or "I'm not fragile" or "I have a thick skin".

I think the "not hurting my feelings" part is essential to empowering people to speak up, because that is a lot of why they don't, frustrating for us, but true. Once someone has actually said something during the treatment, I always say "thank you for telling me", or "that is great feedback".
Don't be afraid to encourage feedback by saying........"I feel like I"m right on the edge of what is comfortable for you, and I need your help in telling me..........."

If I feel some spot on a client's body warrants some more/deeper/special attention, which I feel will be especially intense, possibly painful and maybe sore later, I get specific permission as the client is on the table. Example: "Hey Mary, if I massage this adh. any more, I think you may be sore tomorrow, but I feel like it's responding to the massage, should we leave more for next time, or do you want me to keep working on this area?"
I don't know unless I ask....and that stuff often comes up during the treatment.
Hey--if the client opts for a "mushier" massage, that is a great lead-in for asking them to come back.

Also, it has been my experience that people throw around the term "deep tissue" without really wanting it. These are the people that get massage once or twice a year on vacation, and have only ever had one really good massage. They are afraid of getting another "fluffy" massage, have had a bad experience with getting a hot oil rub and want to make sure it doesn't happen again...........so they ask for a deep tissue (something their neighbor told them). When really what they want is a good, hard, firm Swedish relaxation massage. A few other questions I ask during intake to suss these people out and make sure I'm really clear about the massage that they are looking for; are....

"Since I see from your intake form, that you've had massage before, can you tell me what you really liked about those massages, and what you didn't like?"
"Tell me what made you decide to get a massage today"

If you are giving people the massage they asked for, as opposed to the massage you think they need, they can't complain. (The challenge sometimes, is that it's hard to figure out what people want, or they don't know.)


Since you are a new therapist, I would also suggest to you that you get massage regularly from a few different people, to keep fresh in your mind what things feel like (even though every body is different). Try to get massage from people that do the same style as you, that have the same training. Also, how about giving massage to some non-paying people you trust to give you good feedback about your pressure and approach.

Don't be too freaked out, you are doing all the right things so far,
Noel

 

[Angel D]

Just wanted to take some time and thank you all for your replies, they will really help me out. Thank you for your great advice. I will defiantly try it all!


Thanks again
Sarah

 

[Buddha]

Also, it has been my experience that people throw around the term "deep tissue" without really wanting it. These are the people that get massage once or twice a year on vacation, and have only ever had one really good massage. They are afraid of getting another "fluffy" massage, have had a bad experience with getting a hot oil rub and want to make sure it doesn't happen again...........so they ask for a deep tissue (something their neighbor told them). When really what they want is a good, hard, firm Swedish relaxation massage. A few other questions I ask during intake to suss these people out and make sure I'm really clear about the massage that they are looking for; are....

I used to come across this all the time when working for a spa. Just another way we have to educate the client.

Noel - you have some great dialog examples!

 

[shibby]

I used to come across this all the time when working for a spa. Just another way we have to educate the client.

Noel - you have some great dialog examples!

Thanks Michelle, and yes, the deep tissue confusion I've seen is mainly at the spa in which I work.

Noel

 

[bowgie]

I agree - put emphisis on LETTING YOU KNOW - most people still just don't get it when you say that. I look them right into the eye and kind make it dramatic, also, since I have been told I can get a little carried away with the DT - I warn my clients in the intake process that I naturally work on the deep side and often use a bit of pressure so it is SO important that they keep me informed with how they are feeling.

 

[meerkat]

Too deep Too not to deep, that is the question

I am new to this board but am so glad that i found it. I find massage to be soooooooo personal and well my idea is to close your eyes when there is doubt no matter what the doubt. When my body mechanics get out of line or if my client begins to breath differently or stop breathing all together, I close my eyes and find my center with that i find my way to the core of the problem usually. Feed back can be good but i work mainly in a gym where people think "no pain no gain" so i have to be almost a mind reader it feels like often. I believe that people need touch and some deeper than others, but all of us need touch and sharing with them the need for feed back during the session is so important as you have stated in your posts.

 

[Ashton L]

Hey--if the client opts for a "mushier" massage,

hey, thanks for the props! t023

 

[darkday]

Also, try different wording when you are in the session. Instead of saying "is that too deep," try saying, "would you like more pressure, less pressure or just the same?"

 

[Love Life Simply]

The whole question about clients asking for what they really want is very interesting, I think, and goes to the core of the 'therapy' part of massage therapy. A lot of us, through our upbringing, think it's wrong to ask for what we want, or we find it difficult to do. We use words like 'selfish' and 'self-centered' and 'greedy' to describe ourselves, just for telling another person what we want. If we, as therapists, can enable our clients to feel comfortable asking us for what they want, then we are doing them a real favour, that can have a very positive impact on their lives. It's not easy to do this, because if a client finds it difficult to express their needs, then they will resist our attempts to help them do it!

An idea for overcoming this resistance might be to try to ask as many open questions as possible during the interview, and early on in the session. By this I mean, keep asking questions which don't have a yes or no answer. Questions that can't be answered with a yes or no mean the client has to think, and have a go at expressing their needs, which isn't always so easy. For instance, rather than asking 'do you prefer a firm massage?' you might ask 'how firm do you prefer the pressure to be during massage?' or 'what quality of touch do you like?'. Or, rather than asking 'have you had massage before?' ask 'can you tell me about your previous experiences with massage?'.

Open questions make the client work harder, but it sounds as though these clients were not willing, or didn't feel able to do this work during the session, and only felt able to express their needs later when it was too late. There is the power dynamic with bodywork, where the client may want to treat you as an expert who is in charge, and so, as we are all trained in life generally to defer to experts, they might feel uncomfortable 'challenging' you, as they might feel expressing their needs would be a challenge.

The more open questions you ask, the more the client might feel you are open to them expressing their needs, and you will be giving them the opportunity to practice a little. Often people come to massage wanting to be 'taken care of', which might mean they expect the therapist to do all the work, while they lie back and enjoy it, but some people think real therapy is about the therapist facilitating, while the client's bodymind does the real work of healing. If you think this is a pattern, where clients are unable to express their needs, then do everything you can to get them working on expressing themselves, before the massage starts.

 

[leslie b]

An excellent post Jay with some really good points, it's common when you work at a spa for the clients to Want to be Taken Care Of. I know the salon owner would often tell me that the client had requested Deep Tissue and No Talking durning the massage, they just wanted to lie there. :roll: (The old "Fix Me" mentality.)
Honestly not much bothered me more than that! I finally said, hey, if I don't get some assurance that they'll squawk if it's too deep, there isn't going to be any deep tissue going on!
Anyway Jay, thanks for posting this!

 

[sharpz]

I think in addition to getting massage regularly, I would also suggest that the original poster work on another therapist who will give them constructive feedback. It could be that they are going too deep too fast. It could also be that they are using pointy elbows and such that are just plain uncomfortable and perhaps the muscles are protecting themselves. Many times new therapists are a little anxious to get in there and do a deep and thorough job. That may not be what the client wants or needs, or perhaps it's just a matter of doing it too fast.

If the client has a lot of "stuff" going on and you do deep work and they don't follow up with lots of water......they are going to be sore. Hard to believe that it is happening to so many clients, so that is most likely not the problem here.

 

[GERSON]

It could be that they are going too deep too fast.

If the client has a lot of "stuff" going on and you do deep work and they don't follow up with lots of water......they are going to be sore.

That's a good point about going too deep too fast. I know it took awhile for the student I mentored in 2003/2004 to grasp the concept of using a different amount of pressure for the stroke when it goes over the bone... Ouch... But practice makes perfect! Anyway... she's much better now. So maybe you can considering asking a MT you trust to "trade" with you or to let you practice on her... for some constructive feedback. Feedback is VERY important to me. Yes, I watch for the signs, but I also have to Trust that the client will respond honestly when I question their pain level.

And as for the water, I personally have noticed that it can make a considerable difference! Especially with certain techniques, so I'm a little pushy about the water! While you're getting dressed, "I'll go get you a nice glass of water (or bottle) ok?"

 

[venu]

Learning to Lighten Up?

On Monday the spa owner & spa manager called me in for a meeting and told me that in the past month or so they'd had 3 complaints about my swedish massage, twice even refunding the cost of the client's massage).

Even before I graduated massage therapy school I knew that my touch was a bit firmer than some of my classmates, but I had always thought this to be an asset rather than a liability until recently.

I do as seekingequanimity suggests and request that they let me know that the pressure is uncomfortable... even using the same words that it's not going to "hurt my feelings." And I do my best to establish a rapport with the client in the limited amount of time they're with me and I work hard to make their experience at the spa a good one. That's why like the OP I have really taken this criticism to heart. Here I am nearly 10 years as a MT and they've got me questioning whether I even belong in the business. :roll:

The spa where I work really wants all of us to be carbon copies of each other when it comes to the massage. So I've been trying to figure out how my swedish massage is different than theirs. Because I want to "work smarter not harder." So I find it's surprising that the minute I try to lighten my work I get complaints about going too deep & in at least one case leaving bruises on people! :

I've worked on children from just a few months of age to elderly people in their 80s, and they've all loved my massage. One little elderly client in her 80s came to me in MT school all those years ago and I was so proud she always requested me.... because she called me her, "Magic Hands."

This whole deal has me moping around and afraid to touch any new clients.
Seriously, I really need some advice on how to "lighten up"...

 

[Distinguished Gentleman]

Maybe try slowing down your techniques. I am similar in that I tend to have heavy hands. And I have had a few people over the few years I've been practicing who haven't enjoyed the heavy pressure.

I have found that if I really slow things down, like less than 1/16 of an inch a second, or slower, I am actually getting a much better sense of the tissues, and I am actually easing up my pressure because I am much better able to tell when the muscle is not liking it and resisting, and when I can sink in deeper.

I also ask very specific question, not just how is the pressure, but is it deep enough? too deep?

It isn't easy when you have heavy hands to lighten up. Sometimes it takes being more "present", which I sometimes am guilty of not being. I hope this makes sense

Don't get too discouraged (easier said than done we are caregivers) not everyone will love your massage, but I bet you have clients that will never go to anyone else but you. You will never please everyone. And I thank goodness for a variety of techniques and personalities.

 

[Amartkmart]

I just have to throw out there that the last few weeks we've been in a Mercury retrograde, and if that makes any difference to you, communication can be really tough during that time. Between client/therapist, client/spa owner, boss/employee. (If that's not your thing, ignore me please!)

I have no doubt that you ARE cut out for this business. A little clump of issues all at once totally sucks, but does not mean you can't fix things. t056

 

[Alex S]

Maybe try slowing down your techniques. I am similar in that I tend to have heavy hands.

As for speed I am already quite slow paced... which is why I usually do pretty well with deep tissue, going slow allows me to sink into the deeper tissues.
I guess I'm inclined to believe that I have "heavy hands"as you say Myrrha... that just the wieght of my hand alone may be too much for the client? And if that's the case... what should I do? (You know, short of amputation...)

On the other hand, (pun intended), I've had a couple of male clients wanting deep tissue during the past 2 weeks or so who came in pretty much saying, "hurt me!" (They were skeptical that I could go deep enough for them.) So then you have to go into the whole routine of, "It doesn't have to hurt to do good." :roll:

One said half way through his massage that he gave my massage a t023 ... The other was Tuesday... and he said half way through his massage, "You're a Goddess." I asked if I could have that in writing!
First time I smiled in two days...

Though Astrology isn't my thing, thanks for the pep talk BJB-LMP.

 

[puppetgirl121]

To those of you like Maestra that work in a Spa, I totally understand. I too have "heavy hands syndrome" Ever since I was in massage school I was accused of going too deep. People are always surprised by this since I am 6' and am small frame, but its not only the hands its the forearms I use and elbows .

I am able to find the client's knots quite easily and if not handled proplerly can really hurt. I also agree if the client does not hydrate him/herself enough can cause pain later and cause them to complain to mgmt.

I find some of the biggest compliments are for a client to become a repeat client, and of course if they fall asleep or I look at their face sometime during the massage and their eyeballs have gone to the other side of the head.

I tell my clients that I give a medium to deep tissue massage with lots of stretching, especially if they have problems with their lower back, and I don't finish the massage with a stretch I go back to massage with long strokes.

I have recently moved into my own room, where I don't give 50% of ea. massage to the chiropractor or spa owner. I am in control over scheduling and advertising and I love it!!

So what I'm trying to say is that you can't please everyone, and you can't follow them around and make them drink water. I learned something from each place I worked and just be true to yourself and believe in what you do and it will show.