Independent Contractor issue

[Annihil88torr]

I work as an independent contractor at a small salon. The owner, the manager(owners mother) and me. They do the hair and nails, I do the massages. I am in my fourth year.

Question: When receiving a chair massage job or other work from her location, through "hair" clients what is a fair commission split considering I am using nothing of the salon except the referral??? This issue continues to come up.

Q: what happens if this turns into a continued job? At $60/hr with a 80/20 split I am making her $12/ hour. That adds up for the bigger jobs.

An opportunity has come to me through one of her clients, who is also my client to work at a country club a couple of days a week. I am sure she would expect 20% but what is fair? How long do I give up 20% for work done on my watch with my equipment. She encures no cost for these jobs. They usually bring business for hair and massage at her location. I am stuck for feeling like she owns my work. I want to own it.

 

[Ekklesia]

Independent Contractor issue

deleted

 

[Banana tree]

Hi GrateLakes,
First I am curious about how wedded are you to staying there? Maybe it's time to consider other options. Do you have any desire to work in an independent location?

 

[Lizzy]

Amazonpa, when I started out as an IC, my first place to work out of was a little store front which housed a nail tech and a bath products store. I provided chair massage and they got 25 percent of each massage. That was about 8-9 years ago.
As for doing chair massage at a a salon, where you provide everything but the space the chair occupies, you have to decide what you are willing to pay. Some months may be good, others not so good. But there will come a point when it's just better to pay a monthly rent. And at what point will you be wanting a room with walls & a door to provide table massage for the amount of money you spend.
There are lots of threads on MassagePlanetL about this type of thing. Perceneforum.xxxes/commission are tricky at best. Do a little research and see what you feel is fair. After all it's you who has to live on the income generated at that site.
As for the bigger jobs, are you talking massage on the table in a private room, or are you still talking chair massage but one that would take an hour of your time? Yes it can add up, but can you rent a private room/office somewhere for what you're paying her now?

The opportunity that came to you through one of her clients you should not have to pay them for. While you found out about the opportunity (country club) through someone you met through them, you don't IMO, owe them 20 percent of something which is done completely independent of their establishment. In fact, you may have to be paying the country club to use space there. That deal would have to be completely separate from the salon.

BTW, do you have a written contract with the salon? As someone who has worked at a small salon before, if you don't I urge you to figure it out and get it all down in writing. Written contracts explain who is responsible for what.

You will probably want to have a written contract w/ the country club as well. Even if, bizarrely, they were to tell you that they didn't want to be paid anything for your use of the space. It CYA if there would be some legal dispute down the road.

Fair rate for subletting 1x week?
http://www.massageplanet.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9632

Employee vs. contractor... was I wrong here?
http://www.massageplanet.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9429

Being an IC:
http://www.massageplanet.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8350

New Opportunity in great salon... suggestions?
http://www.massageplanet.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5092

Independent contractors? What is your arrangement?
http://www.massageplanet.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4180

For ICs - sample contracts:
http://www.massageplanet.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=585

Welcome to MassagePlanetL Amazonpa. I hope that helps you a little! Please let us know how things work out for you!

 

[Ryan N]

Thanks for everyone's advice. I do not have a written contract. I am grateful for the salon giving me the freedom in the past 4 years to take care of the family and work with me through the young children mom years, I still feel strongly about this issue.

I have taken limited chair massage jobs off site. In those cases it has been an 80/20 split. Last December I got a recurrent holiday job on my own on the second year. I was repromanded for taking a job the salon referred without "running it through" the salon. I did not feel she was entitled to 20% of a job I secured even though she had originally referred me the year before.

The country club job looks like a great opportunity to expand my business. I do not want to do anything unethical, unfair, or sneaky. I just want to run my business as a professional who also deserves to make a profit.

I take to heart the suggestion to get something written. Thank you. I am finally ready after four years of part time massage and full time motherhood to take the next step in a great career. I did not plan on being so good at this when I decided to go to massage school. I just wanted to make a little extra money. Now I can see I am truly good at what I do and I want to give it the time and energy it deserves.

Make sense to you?

 

[Drummer435]

Independent Contractor Issue

Amazon,

When you are working as IC that is what your are. An IC! No one owns your work. You may work at the salon but you do not work for the salon owner. You are your own boss (with a safety net).

What arrangement do you have with the salon owner?

Do you pay rent for a space or do you work on commission?

Referals need to work both ways. You can refer your clients for hair, nail, & skincare. They can refer clients to you for bodywork.

If you pay rent, you owe nothing for the referral. If on the other hand you have free space than you owe exactly what you agreed to until a new agreement has been reached by both parties.

 

[Uk MonkeyFinger]

Hi Mike,

I am an independent contractor. There is only verbal agreements. However previously when chair massage gigs were booked by calling the salon I represent the salon and they get 20%. When I disagreed with this before the only reasoning I get is "That is just how this business works".

I am made to feel I owe them because I get free hair.

I work on commission (60%). I have my towles and sheets, washer and dryer supplied. I get laundry help, and the massage is included in advertising but I have done some free massages for promotions they run.

I am ready now that the kids will be both in school to focus on the massage. I just dont want to build up a big book and continue to pay her 40%. I am the reason people come back.

I have referred many clients to her but do not receive any finders fee. I think I may need a lawyers help.

 

[mars]

I was working for a spa years ago (as an employee). I went with them to do chair massage at a health fair for a local company. The company later contacted the spa wanting me to come back on a regular basis to do chair massage for them. Months went by the the owner of the spa did nothing about this inquiry.
The contact person at the company came in for a massage with me and asked if I would be interested in doing the regular chair job there. I decided that I would and since the owner of the spa had her chance to get it set up and didn't, I would do the job.

It has been 6.5 years. I no longer work for the spa and I am still doing the chair massage job.

They wanted me, not the spa. I supply everything and it was my work that made them interested. If the spa owner would have followed through with the inquiry - I would have given her a cut, but she didn't and the company seeked me out. I wasn't going to hand her over a regular amt. of money for doing nothing.

If it is a client you received from the salon, but because of your work they are interested in offering you this other job. I wouldn't worry about giving a cut to the salon. It is just a chain of events that occured. They came to you not the salon. If they wanted you to make an outcall to their house instead of coming to the salon - I could see giving a cut to the salon. If they asked the salon about it and the salon set it up for you -I see giving a cut. If the current client came to you and the salon does nothing in connection to the job, I don't see giving a cut.

My :2cents:

 

[Bad Apple]

That makes sense too. But this client has already talked to the owner about this opportunity. After talking to the client I got a feel for what they are looking for. THey need help setting up what is fair for the country club and the therapist. They need help with compensation plan, schedule, and table vs. chair massage perhaps by the pool.

I agreed to set up an initial chair massage job off my regular salon hours in which case I would not be willing to split 80/20. It's a friday night so I was going to make it 85 or 90%.

Since the client has already spoken with the owner, I do not know what her expectations are yet. I wanted to get my thoughts in order so I can speak professionally about what is fair. What is fair if this job continued for 6 more years how much or how long does the salon owner get a cut? I already agreed to run the initial chair job through the salon.

I don't want to represent the salon's name. I want to represent myself at the country club. If ask where I work I would of course promote her services. Hopefully business will come to her.

It is difficult to have a strictly professional relationship in such a small business. You become friends, you work together, your children play together. She helps me out when my husband is out of town. It is difficult to weed through this but if I were a sister and not a friend she would not take a cut. I am a friend unlil it's time for me to make her money. I would rather get my own job to supplement my income. WHat could she possibly do for me at the country club that would be worth a continued 20%?

thanks for the feed back y'all!

 

[Louise C]

I agreed to set up an initial chair massage job off my regular salon hours in which case I would not be willing to split 80/20. It's a friday night so I was going to make it 85 or 90%.

Since the client has already spoken with the owner, I do not know what her expectations are yet. I wanted to get my thoughts in order so I can speak professionally about what is fair. What is fair if this job continued for 6 more years how much or how long does the salon owner get a cut? I already agreed to run the initial chair job through the salon.

It seems to me that since it's off your regular salon hours it should not have been set up so that the salon received a perceneforum.xxxe of the "sales" they did not help earn. Did they make the appointment with you for you to go to the country club to provide chair massage? Are they providing you with support staff there? Will they be doing your advertising there? Your laundry from there? Answering your phone? My guess is no, that will all be on you to do. If you choose to pay them a small perceneforum.xxxe as a "finders fee" this one time... what will keep them from expecting it every time you see a client at the country club?

I don't want to represent the salon's name. I want to represent myself at the country club. If ask where I work I would of course promote her services. Hopefully business will come to her.

I can understand that. You want to advertise and promote your own business since it's such a limited market. You could definitely promote her services though by having some brochures for her business at the country club perhaps at a small side table.

I am a friend unlil it's time for me to make her money. I would rather get my own job to supplement my income. WHat could she possibly do for me at the country club that would be worth a continued 20%?

That's my point! :roll: I'd handle the country club as a separate job entirely... merely offering to have business cards or brochures for the salon. If you feel you must do something to show appreciation for them knowing someone... then I'd do something for them doesn't make it look like some kind of "finders fee!" (Lunch for the whole crew perhaps?)

 

[l0aded]

I agree with Maestra and Mathera.
You should be able to keep all "side gigs" as your own business or second job option. At the the end you are independent contractor. And you're entitled to act like one.

I would present country club job to the salon owner more like promotional gig. You do chair massages and bring clients to her business if the would like to have longer session. And in this case, she collects her regular 40% . And evrybody is happy.

If country club chair massages grow into something bigger than you will treat it a separate business.

But set aside the current discussion... You seem a little frustrated with IC position in salon specially if you're planning to start doing massages full time.
Maybe it will be appropriate to discuss cap-off for the perceneforum.xxxe or even rent possibilities.
That way neither you noe the woner will feel as one is being taken advaneforum.xxxe of.