level 3 sports massage and beyond....

[grey_ufo]

Hi all, im back after serving my ban. I want to thank the moderators for allowing back and I promise to behave.

I want to know what value posters put on doing a level 4,5....6....7...8 sports massage qual over a level 3 with skills (met, str etcetc) added through CPD?


Good to be back in the debate.

AspireST

 

[uk_staffie]

its all part of the great master plan for global domination by a PA, who now have the Chair position of GCMT, have control of the wbesite, the chair of the education, the chair of the communication and have just applied for the PSB advisory role at CNHC, following the resignation of their PA friendly colleague. it is like the script from a James Bond film

the evil plot of issuing level 1 sports massage practitoner certificates is supported by a national awarding orgainisation issuing its "complete it in 2 days" awards and certificates


I am biting my lip from saying " I told you so "

the level of the award is irrelevant, I can see membership of PA being the only way forward


BTW welcome back

 

[mxdjfnrp]

hi bgfl,

good to be back. i asked because its very confusing now with the various levels available. exactly what is the difference between level 4&5? i refuse to pay thousands to top up my level 3. i would rather gain more skills through cpd,i suspect that is the way it used to be done. i am not going to be conned again in this industry. i may be critisised for this but there it is.

 

[byjdwrqf]

i totally agree with you, i covered a large amount on my level 3 course, most of which i see on other peoples courses, so i sometimes think what extra will i learn or gain by doing level 4/5, i'd much prefer to do cpd's in areas i feel i may be weak or that i am more interested in doing.

the problems i see and sometimes feel, is level 3 is the base level for a sports massage therapist, so when clients or other therapists ask about my quals i feel they look down on me sometimes. esp those who have degrees, yet i know from my clients how good a service i provide

i understand your feelings on level 4/5 v's cpd's but i guess you have to take the path you feel you will gain the most from.

p.s. just a thought, why can't the cpd's be promoted as a specialist skill along side our main qual's i.e. sports massage therapist specializing in posture anaylises or something of that sort rather than saying your are level 4,5,6,etc...

 

[Arman Z]

as a training provider, I perfectly agree with you! This whole numbers business just got silly, and has now got even worse.

In my opinion, level 3 courses should be vastly improved and that should be what we all run. Simple. The potential student can then choose the course based on real factors such as the skills and experience of tutors, and not on what level it is.

Im sure most people would rather be trained to level 3 by a tutor who has real hands on experience of working in the industry, worked in sports medicine most of their lives and has a successful practice....rather than trained to level 4 or 5 by someone who trained as a therapist, wasnt very successful at it, so decided to pay their couple of hundred quid to run a qualification? But that is what is happening throughout the UK, and gullible students are being misled into thinking because its level 4/5 its better than anything else.

I cant believe how many schools are now running these qualifications, and the experience of some of the principles and tutors is at best scant, and at worst, zero!

Ironically, minimum level for CNHC registration is level 3, not level 4 or 5 (of course it has to be a good level 3, not one of these weekend warrior level 3s that schools are getting away with teaching). Yes, the statement was put out by EIS that you had to have level 4 sports massage...but Im almost positive that it said level 4 or equivalent, which IMO is quite a lot of the old level 3 sports massage quals.

So Dan, stick with your level 3, and just get on with decent CPD courses, and Rich, dont let those with degrees make you feel inferior, my worst EVER treatments have been given to me by some degree grads!

 

[Leprosy]

not wanting to go off topic, but just picking up on BGFL mentioning GCMT. I welcome the change there. It was once a formidable organisation, that lead the way for regulation and created a robust core curriculum for massage. It is a shame that it went downhill very very quickly and became a lame duck. Hopefully it will now be able to pick itself up, and do what it is meant to do, promote the massage industry, and sort out these massage schools that are sticking two fingers up to the minimum standards that are in place, and giving level 3 qualifications such a bad name!

For once, im not going to say "I wont hold my breath", as I do have a small glimmer of hope that things may change, for the better

(I just hope it sticks to its promise to drop its register, as they should be encouraging therapists to join a PA, not go on its defunct register)

 

[Mr. Sunshine]

I have found "bodywork professional developement" offer some of the best teachers in the world for CPD courses,
Also I did one recently related to anatomy trains and learn't the possibilities of becoming a structural integrator, which all in, would be £9,000 for 500 hrs flexible training with Tom Myers (world leader in fascia research) and James Earl's, which has alot more appeal than a degree course £27,000 debt taught by ****** ?
Re CPD points, do what ever appeals/fits with you (CPD points awarded or not) and be the best you can be, don't get hung up about numbers game.

Welcome back

 

[Oliver]

The issue I now find myself caught up in , is this;

GCMT is the lead body for all forms of massage, it does not have an independant chair ( as was the norm when I was at the table) and it only consists of sports massage, biodynamics massage and remedial massage representatives. This was not the case when FHT, CTHA,STO ,ISRM. MTI, SMTO, NAMMT and others were sitting at the table

HIstorically the niche specialists were provided by the multi discipline professional associations FHT, CThA et al.
THe GCMT standards were all written by education experts who no longer sit round the table.

I too hope that GCMT regains its position as a strong lead body but cant see how that can happen when the whole massage industry, or the majority of massage industry members, are not represented.
Perhaps now is the time that GCMT overtrurned the decision of the previous chair and invite back the PAs who were expelled
BGFL

 

[Theholysan]

great to hear your opinions on this matter and they back up what i thought is the case with regards to the various levels in qualification. I assume that tp's are trying to out do each other by claiming ever increasing levels on their courses. Where will it end? I liked the idea put forward by sportstherapy of doing away with levels and adopting a purely certificate,diploma structure. Surely that would clear up the confusion. I recently saw a level 4 &5 course on a website that must have been an error. The content was the same without a difference in price. It must have been a mistake....or was it?

 

[LeonardKO]

I agree. I think GCMT currently represents around 20% of the UK massage therapists, and I know STO did contact them to re-join, but didnt get any responses (hopefully this will now change).

GCMT always did have an independent chair, but I think money was an obstacle, as the lay chair always received a (in my opinion) large honorarium (not sure if they still do actually), so they chose one of their members (big mistake), however SRTC do not have an independent chair, we have a revolving chair, so theres none of the ego etc that happened at GCMT.

GCMT only has one representative at CNHC, when it originally had 4, so it has been very difficult to organise the massage profession in the way that we used to do, and hopefully this will change too.

I personally dont think that some of the PAs will return to GCMT, even though I would like to see all massage therapists in one place and all sports therapists in another. We shall see.


As for certificate, diploma etc, it would be so much easier if this was done, for example, diplomas should be a minimum of 360 hours, and awards are up to 130 hours(?) certificates fall in between, so it would be much easier to identify course levels.

 

[Pompal 09.]

The Chair position is unpaid. You have my contact details--if you wish to rejoin and contribute in a constructive manner let's discuss. As well as planning global domination I am currently in the midst of relocating my family to Devon, so I am a little short of time at the moment--bear with me.

Regards, Paul

 

[Rick-E]

not sure i agree with you on this point. i could see some courses just being stretched out to meet the hours but still falling short on content, those that want to take short cuts will always take short cuts

i think as long as a course covers the NOS then it should be awarded that level ,cert/dip etc... it should just be made clear what these NOS are.

not i know i'll probably get shot down here but, i have been treated by therapist who have been to uni for 3+ yrs (lots of hours there) and the treatment was very poor compared to a therapist who treated me who had been on a course that lasted only a few months. so just because someone has do blah blah hours would it make them better or not?

 

[Lathriamin]

but that is how a qualification works, an award/certificate/diploma is based on hours. Of course it needs to meet NOS too, and not just cherry picking NOS, the whole of it. When you look at the NOS, its quite obvious that it cannot be covered in some of these 2 day courses, even though its supposed to be, something I hope will now be rectified, as a result of things we have covered in this thread.

I dont think anyone has ever argued that longer courses make you better, its down to lots of different factors, and as I said previously some of my worst treatments were given by 3 year grads.

 

[Newbie555]

Following on from my original post. Given the variety of CPD training now available, Which skill would you see as the next logical step from a level 3 sports massage qualification? Some of you may have done it that way. Can you think back, ( I realise for some of you it was decades ago). What was the first skill that you thought would bring most to your practice and skillset after qualification.

Obviously the content of a Level 3 has probably changed over the years but based on a course that currently ticks all the boxes which CPD would be of greatest benefit to the therapist......and client of course.

Cheers

AspireST

 

[Mr. Fix It]

it depends on what you want to do?

If you are happy to be a massage therapist, then maybe look at different types of massage techniques, such as deep tissue, or even the more comp stuff such as indian head or hot stones (which apparently are very popular).

If you want to treat specific problems, then look at clinical assessment skills, before you move onto more remedial techniques (if you do it the other way you will know how to treat, but not how to assess so it kind of defeats the object, as you wont be able to use the skills properly).

In my opinion, once you have learnt assessment skills, the world is your oyster, so to speak, and every remedial technique you learn will be useful.

 

[Sudhakar B]

Sound advice, thanks Richard.

 

[jjjkylan]

in my opinion it all depends on what you see most in your clinic, you may have more clients coming in with shoulder, neck, knee injuries, so maybe taking a course specializing in those areas might be an option, or a course on MFR may help you better.

i have done hot stones and although it is effective with sports massage, most clients that want SM are not bothered about it, but i do use it for a more therapeutic massage for some clients.

i know it can be very difficult taking the next step on the learning path, its very easy just doing courses to gain cpd's but if you never use those skills its a waste of your time and money. i have just finished a course on sports psychology at warwick uni and although you wouldn't think it could be related to SM i was very surprised at some of the things that i could and will introduce into my clients treatments. We as therapists are very good at fixing the body but the mind also needs training to

i have asked several of my regular clients what they would like me to offer in regards to other types of treatments, and amazingly all of them said nothing they are very happy with what i already offer so i think my next step would be to specialize in certain areas in A&P like the knee which i am really interested in having had several ops on my own knee

i'd also like to add, like Richard says, posture & gait analysis and other assestment tests are a great advantage in SM plus a good way of gaining new clients. i offered a free 30 minute posture analysis with every 30 minute SM and i gained over 20 new clients from the other

i think doing cpds are a great way of learning and probably a better than gaining the higher levels of SM

 

[Refugiaproobby]

for anyone thats interested, i just did a survey monkey to all our centres who currently deliver level 3 / 4 to see what cpd they would like to be developed for them and by far the most popular was gait analysis and lower limb biomechanics ( shame cos i wanted to do kinesiology taping (mind you if you think sports massage "politics" is bad just try talking to the various kinesiology organisations!)