Opinion on Spa Owners?

[Rob B]

When Pearl lost her job last month, she said, "I am just so sick of spa owners." I was wondering if there is any general concensus about "spa owners." What is your opinion?

I know that to be successful in the spa business, you have to be a pretty sharp business person. So that makes me wonder sometimes if out personalities as MT's are just very different than the cash flow, profit & loss mentality?

Next spring, I am opening a new age bookstore with music and gifts and have space for a least 1 and maybe 3 massage/healing arts rooms. I don't want to be a "spa" owner. But I want to bring in massage therapists and offer my customers access to a variety of the healing arts.

Any opinions, feelings, thoughts are appreciated!

Patrick, CMT, NCBTMB

 

[Master Buz Lawson]

Depends...

Why did she lose her job? What was different about her circumstances than someone losing a job in an office or restaurant that is specific to what a spa owner does?

Bad news - you are going to have to adopt the P&L/CF mentality if you hope to succeed in your new venture, even if it is contrary to your personality.

Your P goals and CF needs may differ from a spa, but they will be there and they must be met for you to survive.

My advice is to figure out what you want/need from your business and healing arts space. It does not matter whether your needs are spartan or extravagant, you need to lay them out. Then figure out what it takes to get there. If the healing artists are willing/able to provide that, make a living themselves and be happy working for/with you, then everyone wins. If not, then you have become an evil spa owner.

 

[Lovelyn]

Thanks RR! Good answer. I agree wholeheartedly on each point.

Some MTs love working in a spa environment. Most don't. I haven't tried it so I don't know. Thus I'm also trying to get an idea of what it is that is good out there and what it is that drives us nutz.

(yes, all this and being profit driven too! all a question of balance.)

 

[hunny bunny]

Well, I don't know if I am an evil spa owner or a benevolent spa owner... ha ha. I do know that in the last 8 months of openning my business, my learning curve has been quite a ride. I am lucky to have a wonderful business mentor, yet stubborn enough to make my own mistakes before consulting! ha.

All kidding aside:
When you open up a business, taking on a lease that you will no doubt be the personal guanantor for, plus all the equipment, decor, supplies and advertising you will do (and there is much more - I'm in a little rush) - you will have taken a big business risk. Whomever comes to work with or for you should realize that you are agreeing to certain terms that fit within your business plan and vision. If you are upfront about those things (including clear terms), you will attract the right sublettors/renters, etc. Even then, they will come and go. You must always keep in mind the reason why you run your business the way you do, and the risk you have adopted. If you are not profit-minded and success-oriented, your doors will close faster than you can blink your eyes.

Openning up your own shop will be a huge life lesson. Be very businesslike about it, and enjoy the adventure!

Jill/sagetherapist

 

[Captain Malcolm Reynolds]

Jill,

Thanks for that wisdom and reality check. Not new information, since I have been researching my project for almost two years, but what you say is wisdom that can't be repeated enough. It is my capital investment and my livelihood at stake. I have a long term lease and also know there's no fooling around in commercial real estate. Pay or pay. And yes, it is personally guaranteed so I intend to make it work. But on balance, I do wish to give back to the community and provide a place with a mind-body-spirit-community focus. Stay tuned!

Patrick, CMT, NCBTMB
http://www.tenthousandjoys.com

 

[red_writer]

My ultimate plan in the future is to open a spa. I've been concerned about the dilemma of how to run a business like this with its high overhead and high client expectations, yet keeping a positive environment for employees/ subcontractors to work in.

I keep hearing horror stories about places people have worked where their schedules weren't respected, or there was a lot of back-stabbing, or there were expectations that didn't seem right. Are these the odd cases, or is it more the norm? Or maybe it's like so many things; you only hear the negative stories because the people who are content don't feel the need to shout about it. And if it is the norm, is there some driving force within this industry that perpetuates situations where the workers aren't treated with respect?

I have run a business, and have experienced first hand the challenges of balancing financial factors with a sense of fairness. I made plenty of mistakes on both fronts, although I'd like to believe that more often than not, I erred on the side of generosity toward the employees. I'd also like to believe that I learned something form those mistakes, so that in my next venture I won't have to repeat them.

I like what sagetherapist says about being clear with people about expectations at the outset. After that, if someone becomes unhappy with their situation, at least they can't claim to have been surprised by it.

 

[valet dabess]

Having had worked for two spas that were complete torture, I can add this, Get to know what you are offering.
Get an understanding of what the services are about, what they are like to do, what toll it takes on someone to do them day after day.

Some of the issues surrounding the problems that I had working at these two spas were that they were owned by people who knew nothing about the running of the spa itself. Eventhough they were a daily part of it.
They were oblivious to what the employees had to do, what the difference between services were, the need for breaks between appointments, ect. They seemed so caught up in the money that they jeopardized the working health of those that made money for them.

If you treat those that are around you well, they should do the same for you.

I also agree with Jill that you should share your expectations from the beginning and if they choose to accept them, you should start from the same page.

 

[Catprints]

... been concerned about the dilemma of how to run a business like this with its high overhead and high client expectations, yet keeping a positive environment for employees/ subcontractors to work in.

I keep hearing horror stories about places people have worked where their schedules weren't respected, or there was a lot of back-stabbing, or there were expectations that didn't seem right....

I like what sagetherapist says about being clear with people about expectations at the outset.

Yes, these are really good points and, in my humble opinion and from my research, need to be addressed by the business owner before they even begin hiring employees/contractors. Write it all down in an employee/partner handbook. As one business owner I know and respect said, make it tough and cover all the bases. It is easier to relax tough rules later than it is to try to start new rules when there were none.

I will not tolerate in backstabbing. I have a written rule that gossip is not permitted. There will be no negative discussions about any person, employee, customer period. Singer/songwriter Jewel's business manage (and who is also her mother), Lenedra Carroll wrote a great book called "The Architecture of All Abundance." There she describes the principles by which she runs there business and they should be a model to any business owner.

Patrick.

 

[ck4829]

Get an understanding of what the services are about, what they are like to do, what toll it takes on someone to do them day after day.

Some of the issues surrounding the problems that I had working at these two spas were that they were owned by people who knew nothing about the running of the spa itself. Eventhough they were a daily part of it.
They were oblivious to what the employees had to do, what the difference between services were, the need for breaks between appointments, ect. They seemed so caught up in the money that they jeopardized the working health of those that made money for them.

If you treat those that are around you well, they should do the same for you.

I also agree with Jill that you should share your expectations from the beginning and if they choose to accept them, you should start from the same page.

I completely agree with my Cyber-twin here. I've worked for 2 salons/spas... who never seemed to get the idea that having a MT on the premises does not a spa make! One of them honestly didn't have the room for me... and that's the primary reason why I moved on.
The second and last place I worked at never really fulfilled any of the things they told me they were going to do with their "day spa."
I was shown a cubicle upstairs... and there I worked for 4.5 years. Before realizing that things were never going to get better there. And the owners were never going to respect me, or what I did. (The owners were hair stylists.) Their management style was "my way or the highway"... but they always complained about how they couldn't keep their staff... I think they went through 6 receptionists and 8 hair stylists during the time I worked there.

There's a saying, that "Employers get the Employees they deserve."

Though I was set up as an IC... after putting up with a lot of mismanagement and even a couple verbal "dressing downs" in front of hair clients... I decided they didn't deserve me!

The place I'm in now isn't as pretty, shiny, or spacious, but on the other hand... everyone there Really LIKES Me, appreciates my skills, and thinks I provide a Valuable Service (not just a pampering luxury) to my clients.
And that as they say, made all the difference.

 

[Scarlett]

I completely agree with my Cyber-twin here. I've worked for 2 salons/spas... who never seemed to get the idea that having a MT on the premises does not a spa make! One of them honestly didn't have the room for me... and that's the primary reason why I moved on.
The second and last place I worked at never really fulfilled any of the things they told me they were going to do with their "day spa."
I was shown a cubicle upstairs... and there I worked for 4.5 years. Before realizing that things were never going to get better there. And the owners were never going to respect me, or what I did. (The owners were hair stylists.) Their management style was "my way or the highway"... but they always complained about how they couldn't keep their staff... I think they went through 6 receptionists and 8 hair stylists during the time I worked there.

The place I'm in now isn't as pretty, shiny, or spacious, but on the other hand... everyone there Really LIKES Me, appreciates my skills, and thinks I provide a Valuable Service (not just a pampering luxury) to my clients.
And that as they say, made all the difference.

So is what you're saying that the spa owners you worked for before were clueless?? :twisted:
I hope that getting into it from the perspective of a bodyworker might be an advaneforum.xxxe in that we understand the position of the person generating the income. On the other hand, how many of us "worker bees" have the $1M+ to invest in a fancy space with all the trimmings?!

Then again, maybe "all the trimmings" isn't necessary when you develop a loyal clientelle who understand the value they're getting from a group that works well together and truly understands what they are providing.

 

[buildermantn]

So is what you're saying that the spa owners you worked for before were clueless?? :twisted:

Pretty much! LOL And any ideas you had they didn't want to hear. (Oh, don't get me started on the time I tried to suggest a policy of 24 hr notice of cancellation!)

I hope that getting into it from the perspective of a bodyworker might be an advaneforum.xxxe in that we understand the position of the person generating the income. On the other hand, how many of us "worker bees" have the $1M+ to invest in a fancy space with all the trimmings?!

I think your having the perspective of a being a fellow bodyworker is likely to make a bigger difference in a potential spa employee. You've been in the trenches and you know the pitfalls of working in the business.

Then again, maybe "all the trimmings" isn't necessary when you develop a loyal clientelle who understand the value they're getting from a group that works well together and truly understands what they are providing.

I think that's true. If you have a loyal core clientele, they'll have come to know you over the years... and seen your business grow. You'll know what services and things are important to them and which are not. Trimmings or not... you'll know what you have to do!

My problem with the last place I worked was that they talked big about their hopes, plans and dreams for their "day spa"... but in 4.5 years of working for them very little of those "improvements" actually happened. (For instance it took them 3 summers to put in a window air conditioner to TRY to cool the upstairs, which did not have air ducts installed when the place was remodeled like the downstairs did. It was really hard to do a massage when it was 94 degrees outside, (and nearly as hot and stuffy within) and they wouldn't let me open the windows either. I was sick for 3 days after that.) Oy, talk about a sweat shop... t096

 

[Cady]

Depends...

Bad news - you are going to have to adopt the P&L/CF mentality if you hope to succeed in your new venture, even if it is contrary to your personality.

I do apologize for being obtuse, but what is/are P&L /CF? profit/loss? casualty finance? lol thanks, mick

 

[cheznight]

p/l is profit/loss.

i'll echo the 'not-a-massage-professional' employer can be a serious problem. but there are exceptions.

to me, it basically comes down to 'do unto others....'

 

[Nev]

Financial acronyms

R=Revenue
COGS=Cost of Goods (services) sold aka direct expense, things attributable to a specific sale
SGA = Selling, General and Admin. expense (aka Overhead, things not attributable to a specific sale)
DEP = Depreciation expense. A non-cash expense representing the portion of your CAPEX as if you bought the equipment on an installment plan (does not matter how you really paid for it)

R-COGS = Gross Margin

GM - SGA - Dep = Net Margin or Profit/Loss


CF = Cash Flow

CapEx = Capital Expenditures, equipment that you have to plunk down all the money for now, but will use for many years

Net Margin + Depreciation Expense - CAPEX + Loans proceeds received - Loan principal paid = CF

You can be very profitable, but have 0 or negative cash flow if you have to invest in new equipment to grow your biz

 

[Pompal 09.]

I think it is all on an individual business basis, but overall I believe that "spa owners" are grossly negligent with how they treat their massage therapists. It is the majority, not the minority of the time that when working in a spa, you will be asked to perform "skills" you have not been trained in, be overworked, and/or not provided enough business and yet be expected to hang around. Inevitably, most all people (including myself) have eventually gotten injured in some physical manner while on the job and been told "work on".

Unfortunately, many of the spa owners out there are not in it for the care of the client/spa goers, but in it for the money. Do I think there is something wrong with money? No. Do I dislike the way I have seen many owners run their ship? You'd better believe it.

My opinion, and I did the numbers with the last salon I worked at. (it was topping a mil plus, per year and honestly it was probably a lot more than that -- I think the take home for the owners was in the $500,000 region). Just $100,000 of that could have been taken for things like, increasing room size, allowing for split shifts, and a true hour lunch, places for the hairdressers to stand on that would help their own "micro-injuries" (ergonomic mats, etc.), good ventilation for the esthetics and nail people, an ergonomic workstation for the "greeters" and "schedulers" (this group was expected to stand all day long on a tiled floor, -- sitting prohibited (all day for them was a 10 hour shift --- as they had to come in early and leave late --- another place where split shifts would have come in handy).

Problem is, the owner, really didn't care about the employees. And he has the ability to truly do something to make everyones work life healthier and better. This is just one instance of what I have seen from the big companies.

This particular boss, fired one person because she asked to miss work (ahead of time) to go to her grandmothers funeral. She went. He didn't want her to. She had even found someone to cover her station.

I don't like working like this. It just isn't right.

 

[GUERA33]

You need to reconsider the math

There is no way on the face of this planet that any spa owner "Takes Home" anything close to the figures you presented. While their actions certainly are not right, it sounds more like a matter of being a bad boss than anything else.

Direct costs (commissions) alone would be at least 40% (and that assumes a pretty evil spa owner), plus any benefits

Indirect costs run 25-30%

So your 500K is probably more like $300K.

Though TX may not have state personal income tax, they certainly tax business income at an average of 5%. Knock off another $60K.

Assuming they have 0% financing for their buildout, equipment and inventory - which does not happen anywhere on the planet - you are looking at less than $250,000 of net profit for the owners - that is plural.

That is not a whole lot of money for someone willing to take on the financial risk of a lease, loan for buildout and equipment.

 

[cutie]

There is no way on the face of this planet that any spa owner "Takes Home" anything close to the figures you presented.

Yes... there is. It is a whole other level than what you know about, if you say it is not. Here's a pretty figur for you. We did $26,000 just in gift certificates in one day, at Christmas on year.

I hate to tell you, but the place I worked at was so established (18 years), and so good at making money and paying as little as they could possibly get away with, the owners were married and did indeed "take home" around that much per year. Both worked there and paid themselves, as well, there were profits in the company that were entered into that figure.

I know it must be hard for some people to imagine, and your number crunching is nice and dandy, and I respect that you are good a crunching numbers, but you have to undertand, I was there. I also own a business, and sometimes there are businesses that actually do so well, it really is hard to fathom.

Sorry. But, yes -- I'd say I am easily in the ball park and you are off for this particular company. No offense intended.


And, what it comes down to, is I have worked with some people who just don't care, and actually HAVE the ability to make things better. The sad truth. And, I see it regularily - not just on one incident.

I know you are a spa owner and probably are coming back at me with your "knowledge-must-be-better-than-mine" because it does hurt when people say bad things about how we choose to live our lives. But if the shoe doesn't fit you, then there is no need to wear it.


Oh, and for kicks and grins.... let's just say my numbers are off, by say.... 200,000. The problem still exists. Spa owner making a nice profit margin, does little to nothing, except for that cash bar Christmas dinner each year to actually maintain what could be much better conditions for the employees. Sure the place "looks" nice, but that doesn't address the issues I presented in my first post.

Problem is, there are to many people out there who can afford to make a difference, and just don't. (Spa and other fields as well. I am just addressing what I have found as a general rule with "Spa Owners" -- but you get someone like Jill/Sagetherapist and I'd say then you are looking at the right kind of person you want to work for. THOSE are few and far between!)

 

[prtyyngthng]

I didn't know whether or not I should reply to this post, since I don't have any advice for anyone running a spa, but I had an experience similar to Texas-gal's. where to start.....

when I was working at this one spa, they were celebrating 20 years of business. They charged more for massage and esthetics than most places in my city, and I have no idea where the money went. The estheticians got paid $12 per hour at the very most, while some of the services they were providing cost over $200. There was no hot water in the washrooms upstairs, the AC and heating was constantly on the fritz, the carpets were smelly and the place was generally unclean. The receptionists brought in an ergonomic mat to stand on, but the manager threw it out because she thought it was ugly. Us MTs were given a 1/2 hour lunch break for a 9 hour shift, and it happened quite often that they would book us a massage over that time. Any time that we brought up an issue to the MT leader, nothing was done about it.

Most people were frustrated and didn't want to work there, and I'm sure some clients noticed that. So I guess if I have any advice, it's listen to your staff members: try to make the changes they need for a healthy environment, because a happy employee means very happy clients!

 

[Mark P]

Recently I posted this to the email list for the massage startup I'm involved with:

Massage therapists are often treated poorly, as resources to exploit rather than skilled professionals to be valued. Any employer that can gain and keep a reputation for treating us with respect and professionalism will be, in my opinion, highly sought after.

Just encouraging them to continue with the respect they've shown us so far.

But some opinions for Patrick... one of my biggest pet peeves with spas are the horribly disrespectful hiring practices I've found. Want ads full of attitude. Folks who don't follow up when they say they will. Ignored calls/voicemails/emails. Job opportunities that disappear into the ether. Hiring managers/owners/etc who aren't CLEAR on what they need and what they have to offer (I had a salon owner tell me after my 1 hr interview session that he wasn't sure if he wanted to hire an employee or simply rent the space--I had told him on the phone before meeting him that I wasn't interested in renting space.)

Another is devaluing our work/time. Do not try to hire a "massage therapist/receptionist"... they are two different jobs. Do not place an ad asking for a "massage volunteer," unless you are offering a true volunteer opportunity and are not just another employer trying to avoid paying us. Do not place an ad for a "massage intern" if the only real duties you have for this intern are things like filing, reception, and/or laundry, etc.

The words that continue to come to mind include respect, integrity, professionalism, clarity, and transparency.

 

[dlyle76]

Here's 2 other threads you may be interested in reading:

There is a lot of information on them regarding "spa type behaviour". One is from quite some time ago and one from a bit more recent. I recalled them while trying to think of other "spa discussions we've had and thought you may be interested. Hope they help.


Discussing Pay
http://www.massageplanet.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1613

Massage Envy
http://www.massageplanet.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2808