problem below L4/L5

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faerstil

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hi, i had an operation 1 year ago on a large prolapse at L4/L5 i did not recover well from the op with my left leg even more numb and weak than before the operation when i started to sit again after the op i had a bad pain at the base of my spine at first i thought it was from the op but it got worse and now i have problems that feel like nerve pain going down my right leg iam already taking pregablin but it does not seem to be working, anyway it took 10 months for me to see the surgeon after my op and he was surprised to see how much worse i was he arranged an mri scan then i get a phone call from him saying i need another op below L4/L5, has anyone had this op and is it going to be worse than the L4/L5 as i very often wish i had not had it done before i was more active and now because my leg and back pain i've put on over 1 stone which i cannot shift, any advise would be much appreciated.
 
The level you are referring to BMW, is the L5/S1, and is the last disc level at the base of the spinal column. Damage 'or' desease at the L 4/5 level is 'often' accompanied by similar problems at the L5/S1 level, this
is because those 2 levels are supporting the whole weight of the torso, arms, neck and head.

For some reason, god knows why, Spinal Surgeons are renouned for mis-reading MRI scans of this level's nerve impingements and often play down it's sigificance. Believe me, they are crucial levels, and problems there can cause 'major spinal instability' as far up as the neck & head.

The most likeliest cause of your residual post operative pains (in my mind) is that the majority of your pre-operative pains were actually caused by the L5/S1 and not the L 4/5 as previously thought. That would explain the persistance of the symptoms.

If I am right, the LS/S1 level should send any leg pains & spasms present, down the BACK of your leg/s right down to your feet.
If it's the L 4/5 level, you should feel those pains & spasms more in the
FRONT of the leg/s. If you still have nerve impingements at both levels, you will feel pain all over your leg/s, as well as your HIPS, BUTT CHECKS, GROIN and (if appicable) TESTICLES.

However, Standard open back spine surgery and less invasive open back procedures (sometimes described as microdiscectomy) are well known for causing very poor clinical outcomes for patients, this is due to their destructive nature and methods.

Make sure you get all the 'detailed information' you want 'and need' from your Surgeon before commiting to a 2nd procedure, he/she won't want to give this much detail, but be persistant, it's your body, it's your life.

All the very best BMW, I hope this helped a little.


SPINELF
 
Hi Delidot here,

I had two disctectomies and my second op the surgeon, cut my left sciatic nerve and has left me with constant sciatica for the rest of my life.
I too have put on actually 4 stone, and people often say, you must over eat or u must secretly eat a poor diet. This is simply not the case, my husband could not believe that on the weight watchers diet, i still could only loose 7lb but due to my medication, i and lack of mobility i just could not loose any more weight.
I have recently been in hospital after my second op was 8 years ago, with another prolapsed disc, but on my right side and above L4L5, and my surgeon performed a double nerve root injection, double facet joint injections and a caudal epidural. After 2 and a half weeks the sciatic pain has restarted in my buttocks and down my right leg, which is the new pain. the chronic sciatica which i have had now for over 8 years has just started again in my left leg but no in my buttocks. If i had a choice i wouldnt operate again, but, if you look on google and put in new pioneering spinal back surgery, it brings up sites the consutlants use, and i have found that there are alot of options you can ask from your surgeon. For example. My surgeon has told me that due to the two previous ops removing discs, the new prolapse is one of potentially many more, as the areas have started to wear away, then it collapses and dics above and below start to bulge and then the same process happens all over again.
If you want me to email stuff i have found then send me your email address and i will send you the links, they may or may not help you, but i certainly will be looking for as much info as i can before anyone else touches my back, with the understanding, that i want something done that will prevent my other discs from collapsing in the future.... what do you think?
Deli Dot
 
Hi I am a retired nurse who, as a result of all the lifting in the days before hoists, has had 4 major spinal ops spanning across many years. The first prolapsed disc I had was in 1979 (L5/S1), the second in 1999 (L4/L5) and the third in 2000 (L2-L5). The first 2 ops were discectomies and laminectomies the third was a spinal fusion. I did really well after the first op but just went backwards after 2 & yet after 3 I made good progress until a slip on food in staff dining room. I had a brill orthopaedic consultant who explained everything and didn't give false hope & when we realised the nerve pain as such didn't present as an operative target he referred me to a Neurologist. 2 years ago I had a spinal cord stimulator implanted which is a bit like an internal tens machine. This hasn't given me a great deal of relief and some days I feel just like a ball of pain. On others, I appreciate the fact that I am here and can do some of the things that bring me pleasure and for that I am grateful. Even having to swallow 35 tablets a day I endure because these enable me to do things for myself. My advice is to ask as many questions as you can think of from your consultant, ask about second opinions, ask about medication options if what you are taking isn't helping and above all try to stay positive. I hope that you can get some solution to your pain as I truly appreciate how pain can really pull you down. Try to enjoy the good days and you will find something to be thankful for. Namaste, Maria
 
Hi

I have also put on weight since my first discectomy 8 years ago, and have added another stone in the last 8 months due to inactivity. One person suggested that I have back problems because of my weight, when in fact I have weight problems because of my back...... The extra weight cannot be helping my back problems and I rarely eat chocolate and junk food so it seems very unfair .

My first op was at L5/S1 and while I was never completely pain free afterwards and was limited in my activities it allowed me to live a relatively 'normal' life. The op should not be any worse than the one you have already had but do look at all of your options.

I hope that all goes well for you.

Maz
 
well i saw the surgeon today after he told me by phone that i needed an op at L1 was just getting my head around a second op when he said it would not take away the pain in my back or the very low spine pain and could leave me worse off with more pain and weakness in my left leg , i was speachless i was not expecting to have no alternative but to live with this constant pain, at 43 i do not want to have this much pain for the rest of my life, i feel terrible at this prospect.
 
Hi

I just wonder whether you have tried any alternatives?

There are many therapies mentioned in these forums that do not involve surgery but are very effective. Chiropractors, Osteopaths, Massage therapists, Physiotherapists etc can often be very successful at treating back problems and are fairly available in the private sector. Other therapists such as Bowen Technique etc are less available in some areas but can be very helpful. There are specialist centres around the country that offer a mixture of these therapies/therapists in order to talour the most suitable treatment for your particular problem.

Many people also find practising some form of regular spinal decompression at home using either an inversion table or a Nubax Trio is very helpful.

Relying on your surgeon for alternatives is not a great idea in my opinion as they are only experts in one field ie operating on backs, and know very little about the alternatives available.

Hope you find some relief soon.

Pete
 
IMHO the main reason why many therapies get limited success for these 'spinal issues' and 'trapped nerves', conventional or otherwise, is that they don't regard these as whole body problems.

There is a reciprocal relationship between any piece of structure and any other piece of structure, if these relationships aren't sorted out then mechanical strain will persist, no matter how brilliant the treatment of the local problem.

But...
mechanics affect, and are affected by, metabolism;

and metabolism affects, and is affected by, toxicity;

and all of these affect, and are affected by, mental and emotional state.

So damage to a lumbar disc is less about the disc failing and more about force being focussed upon it from elsewhere, due to the twists and turns the body makes dealing with ALL its concerns - metabolic, toxic, mental, physical etc etc.

Nerve pain is disease of the nerve, the nerve becomes inflammed for all kinds of reasons, compression or irritation at the spine is just one potential element of many. Treating this as a specialist problem doesn't make sense to me, special skills may at times be needed, that's not the same thing.

Funnily enough we could say much the same about a problem with kidney, or a colon, or a lung. So you need a holist - not somebody who does wierd things, or lots of things, but somebody who understands the complete jigsaw.

Just my tuppence worth.
 
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    Phoenix Blossom Spa ๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน3 girls ๐Ÿ˜˜Table shower ใ€body scrub ใ€ Sea salt bath๐Ÿ‘5124 Dundas St W Etobicokeโ˜Ž๏ธ416-817-3366๐Ÿ‘ New girl Sandy sexy body so open service ๐Ÿ˜œ๐Ÿ˜š Young girl Cherry (Student)๐Ÿ˜˜๐Ÿ˜˜โ€œcharming breasts.โ€beautiful curvy hips.โ€very provocative service๐Ÿ˜˜๐Ÿ˜˜๐Ÿ˜˜, You are welcome to make an appointment at any time or walk in the back door with plenty of parking spaces
  37. Lulu_Villa_Spa:
    Jessica Pretty Girl with amazing personality and super easy to get along with. Sasa friendly Vietnamese Judy is a gorgeous model type Vietnamese Girl Sami Vietnamese Girl Cherry ๐Ÿ’ From Malaysia Part time School girl โ˜Ž๏ธ647- 446-0886
  38. DareDevil:
    Add bookmark #400 Blackpink Wellness โ™ฅ๏ธโ™ฅ๏ธ90 Marycroft Ave. Unit #2, Vaughan, ๐Ÿญ๐ŸฌON L4L 5Y1 (647) 395-3188. BEAUTIFUL AND SEXY GIRLS TODAY: ๐ŸŒนSuperstar Julie and Beautiful Tiffany on duty๐ŸŒน.
  39. DareDevil:
    ARIA WELLNESS โ™ฅ๏ธโ™ฅ๏ธADDRESS: 360 HWY 7, UNIT #6, RICHMOND HILLโ™ฅ๏ธโ™ฅ๏ธ,647-222-5683 (PHONES CALL ONLY, NO TEXT'N AVAILABLE) โ™ฅ๏ธTODAY'S Schedule!โ™ฅ๏ธ Loaded lineup with Young Beautiful Girls : New Girls Cici and Joy, Ellagant Ella, Magical Mia and Work out๐Ÿ‹๐Ÿšด๐Ÿ’ช Babe Amy! BUY 10 HOURS (GET 11 HOURS) **TODAY'S PICK OF THE DAY ARE๐Ÿฌ๐ŸญCici or Ella๐Ÿฌ๐Ÿญ
  40. wonderspa:
    wonderspa: wonderspa: ๐ŸŒบ๐ŸŒบWonder spa,(9421Jane st unit127)call416-5000-800โ˜Ž๏ธbest massage in vaughan,Wednesday RMT available,๐Ÿ’„sexy very young girl Joey natural c cup,very good looking nice body slide,really popular ๐ŸŽlong hair Q Lucy good strong to relax oil massage, Relieve pain and remove stress,more experience,young very beautiful new girl Cici, back walk ,body slide,amazing the end,give you warm and comfortable time must try๐Ÿ”ฅ
  41. EMSpa_schedule:
    Tomorrow's sneak peek: On Friday May 2, 2025, our attendants will be Ada ๐Ÿฅฐ, Carla โค, Vicky ๐Ÿฅฐ, Opal ๐Ÿฅฐ and Cici ๐Ÿ˜. Call us at โ˜Ž๏ธ(905) 479-6668โ˜Ž๏ธ to book!
  42. Lilyspa1:
    Lily Spa :๐Ÿ’•๐Ÿ’•Thursday Schedule ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡ณ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡ณSana 23, , Punjabi girl , very pretty 36 DDD ๐Ÿ˜ˆGFE โค๏ธElena ( Latino ) Big Nature Boobs & SuSu ( Asian )Slim , ๐Ÿ˜๐Ÿ˜Porn Service ๐Ÿ”ฅDuo ๐Ÿ”ฅ,โ˜Ž๏ธ 6475318288
  43. Soul Relax Spa:
    โœจ Looking for a relaxing escape? โœ… Click Here Meet๐ŸŒธLuna๐ŸŒธValentina๐ŸŒธKellyCall us today for the best treatment and service experience. Click on our Username and FOLLOW US for updates ! Call now โ˜Ž 289 - 298 - 5662โ˜Ž๏ธ Your ultimate relaxation awaits! โœจ
  44. bnwellness_wilson:
    We have 4 young girls are working today, young cite Taiwanese Victoria 25โ€™s slime open mind and young flirty Tina 30โ€™s with sexy body open mind, sexy Coco and sweet GFE Ella are providing deep tissue massage, pls call 4163985777 book appointment and walk in always welcome,back entrance and parking available, 350 Wilson Ave North York
  45. Lulu1980:
    Phoenix Blossom Spa ๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน2 girls๏ผŒNina ใ€Cindy ๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ”ฅ5124 Dundas St W Etobicokeโ˜Ž๏ธ416-817-3366๐Ÿ‘ Table Shower Sea Salt Bath Body Scrub๐Ÿ˜˜ Japanese girl Nina โค๏ธ Natural Big Boobs 38 DD ๐Ÿ˜˜Pink Mini Nipples Hot body slide, super enjoyable๐Ÿ˜˜๐Ÿ˜˜๐Ÿ˜˜๐Ÿ˜˜ very provocative service๐Ÿ˜˜๐Ÿ˜˜๐Ÿ˜˜, Mia sexy girl 1.65 M.pretty boobs 36D๐Ÿ˜˜Superb service ๐Ÿ‘ massage, has therapeutic effect to loosen bones and relieve muscle pressure and will bring you unexpected service effects, she will bring you a little surpr
  46. AliceSpa:
    THURSDAY at ๐—”๐—Ÿ๐—œ๐—–๐—˜ ๐—ฆ๐—ฃ๐—”.4915 Steeles Ave. E, Scarborough ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿญ๐Ÿฒ-๐Ÿฎ๐Ÿต๐Ÿด-๐Ÿฌ๐Ÿด๐Ÿต๐Ÿด. 3 girls here today at ALICE SPA. Open 10am to 9pm: BEBE is a young slim Vietnamese girl with a beauty face, C Cup, 5'2" & 100 Lbs, student and model looks, vg at fs multiple positions, bbbj ymmv must be clean and respectful. KITTY (12pm-9pm) is a new Korean girl, super busty, small body, new to the business.
  47. Moneylee:
    All season wellness center: Young girl big boobs beautiful face deep massage Midi,Young girl big boobs beautiful face deep massage Tina ,Young girl big breasted beautiful buttocks charming temperament big boobs Cindy ,Student big boobs buttocks Vicky, Enchanting sexy petite deep massage Sherry ,๐Ÿ address: #5-30 Rambler dr Brampton ,Ontario L6W 1E2โ˜Ž๏ธ4376655510 ๐Ÿˆต๏ธ๐Ÿˆต๏ธ๐Ÿฆต๐Ÿฆต๐Ÿ‘…๐Ÿ‘…๐Ÿ‘„๐Ÿ‘„
  48. SL East Spa:
    ๐Ÿ’†โ€โ™€๐Ÿ’–Terrific Thursday ๐Ÿ’– Ultimate destination for Asian massages๐ŸŽ‰ Two fab spots: SL Richmond Hill & SL West Oakville โœจ Your passport to paradise with 9 enchanting girls fr China, HK โ€” ๐Ÿ†•Tiffany, Joey, Julie, Aaliyah, Coco, Yui, Meghan, Julia & New 34D Jasmineโ€”โ€” ready to pamper you๐ŸŽ๐Ÿ Ring us ๐Ÿ“ž647-695-6354 or text us ๐Ÿ“ฑ647-578-8169โœจ 160 East Beaver Cr., Unit 12, RichmondHill ๐Ÿ’ฐWhere Eastern charm meets Western comfort - your bliss awaits๐Ÿ™Œ
  49. Moneylee:
    Full season wellness center: young girl pretty face nice figure Thai deep massage Vivian , pretty face nice figure Thai deep massage Yuki ,Young girl big breasted beautiful buttocks charming temperament big boobs Anjoo ,Young girl Big breasted saucy naughty Ella,Enchanting sexy petite deep massage Mary. 2560 Shepard ave Mississauga unit 1 .โ˜Ž๏ธ4379857899๐Ÿ‘…๐Ÿ‘…๐Ÿˆต๏ธ๐Ÿˆต๏ธ๐Ÿ‘„๐Ÿ‘„๐Ÿฆต๐Ÿฆต
  50. Lilyspa1:
    Lily Spa :๐Ÿ’•๐Ÿ’•Thursday Schedule ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡ณ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡ณSana 23, , Punjabi girl , very pretty 36 DDD ๐Ÿ˜ˆGFE โค๏ธElena ( Latino ) Big Nature Boobs & SuSu ( Asian )Slim , ๐Ÿ˜๐Ÿ˜Porn Service ๐Ÿ”ฅDuo ๐Ÿ”ฅ,โ˜Ž๏ธ 6475318288
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