session lengths...hmm...

[larry141094]

I got my brain wrapped in a pretzel again!

This is SORT of a variation on the Hot Stone by default thread http://www.massageplanet.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5066

BUT I'm playing around with different session lengths. I've done the standard 30-60-90-120 for a while now, and it has worked well (I get mostly 90 mins, with some 2-hrs and 1-hrs thrown in, and I haven't done any half-hours at all). But to incorporate some of the other new techniques that I'd like to do, I may either have to come up with a different time (and then price) schedule, or keep the existing one but then the other techniques would cut into actual "hands-on" massage time.

The two techniques I speak of are Hot Stone and the little handheld electronic device that feels like an uneven (but pleasant!) TENS unit on the upper and lower back. Hot Stone ends up taking a little longer because of the switching stones and stuff like that (or does it? I haven't done enough to know. But I plan on using stones both for spot treatment/Deep Tissue/Trigger Point AND in full body massages). And with the handheld device, I can hook up two electrode-type sticky pads, attach one to C7 and the other to the sacrum, set the machine to a comfortable level for the client, and then let them sort of "marinate" for 12 mins or so while the machine contracts and relaxes their muscles. (Many are asleep by the time I get done with this.) Trouble is, with the machine, (which I'd like to incorporate into as many massages as possible and requires no setup or cleanup), that "marination" technique only takes 12-15 mins. It's not a 5-minute thing that's easy to absorb in a session, nor is it enough to add a half-hour to what is already an hour (or 90-min) long massage.

So, my question is, is it better to stick with my 30-60-90-120 schedule and simply have some of these techniques cut into the "hands-on" time, and would the average client feel jilted? Or do you think it's no big deal, that the clients probably wouldn't mind, because I'm offering them something unique that feels really good? OR, should I instead entertain the idea of a 45-75-105-min massage schedule (and price the sessions accordingly) to give the added value of the other techniques without sacrificing massage time?

(I've long thought that an hour was too short for a massage anyway, but 75 mins seemed just right...but again, I've wound myself up so tight that I'm confused lol.)

Hehe if anyone's still awake (I know, I write books...sorry!) and has any insight/advice/suggestions, y'all know that they're always appreciated! Thanks in advance!
Hugs,
~Jyoti

 

[Darth]

I have a friend LMT who's main treatment time is 75 minutes. She does myofascial unwinding and found that just one hour wasn't quite enough but that 90 minutes was a little more than she needed. So, for her 75 minutes works out perfectly.

One way to do this would be to offer the electrical device as an "add-on" to the 60 minute massage and charge extra for it.

Just a thought.
Angie

 

[Tabitha H]

I think people to notice you cutting into hands on time in 60min, but for a longer session they're OK with it.

So I'd say offer it as a 15min add-on that people can request for any length session, (60, 90, 120 etc); if they don't request it, include it if you think it is needed in a 90min or 120min session, but don't worry about it for 60min clients. You will find the occassional one that does feels it cuts into their time if you include it when you want to, so just get some feedback if they think the marinating was effective - it's just the same as if a client says they are extremely ticklish around their armpits, if you have a super dooper effective armpit massage, you don't use it on them. If someone expresses a not positive view on the marinating, you don't use it on them next time (and you make a note in their notes so you don't forget)

Nothing to be too confused about, and you're only scheduling you at the moment, so you can fit appointments into whatever time frame you want

 

[Theandysullivan]

I used to see a therapist who used multiple modalities in her sessions. She charged one fee for the session, and it averaged out to about 90 mins. Sometimes longer and sometimes shorter.

I don't think the clients will feel jilted if you decide on 75 or 90 or 120 (those are all fair time lengths for what you are talking about). I would say this, you may want to consider changing the way you practice - and just coming up with one general time frame between the 75 and the 120.

Start the new clients with the way you want to work. If you want everyone to have this kind of treatment, just begin all new clients at the set rate for this and work them differently. I'd also say consider making all sessions uniform to one time of 90 mins if you plan to do this type of treatment, especially since that is mainly the type of clientele you are getting anyway.

See how it goes. It may make your life complicated for a while, but if it is where you want to be, it will work itself out.

You could explain to new clients that "x, y & z" is what they can expect from their session.

The old ones, you can offer to provide them a one time session of this "type" for free or 1/2 price, to see if they want to switch to this "style", if you want to convert most everyone over.

Just my thoughts on a different way to make it work.

 

[0sm0di0r]

Thanks! All y'all have some great ideas.

I started thinking about going to a 45-75-105 time schedule, but I was banking on the fact that everyone would automatically upgrade to the next 15 mins. I started realizing that many ppl would actually sign up for LESS time, and thus I'd be bringing in less per session. And with the extra prep work involved, I'd be spending just as much overall time on each session, while bringing in about $10 less! That didn't make sense. Besides, I don't have that many hour-long clients; I'm able to smoothly (but never pushy) talk them into a 90-min session. Most ppl come to me for both pain relief on a focus area AND a full-body relaxation, and I tell them that to do both adequately, 90 mins is best. Practically everybody goes for it. But I wouldn't be guaranteed that they'd all go to a 105-min session if I adopted the new schedule.

I ALSO didn't want to stick with the 30-60-90-120 and keep prices the SAME, because then I'm not making any extra for what is a very unique mostly-spa-exclusive service that also takes additional prep time and supplies. Nor did I want to simply raise prices across the board (which would be VERY easy to do, but I was still at a loss of exactly how I'd approach my current clients about it. I want to take care of them by giving them more of a sense of added value.) I also wasn't sure I could simply raise prices when I'm already running a rather scant schedule lately.

(stay tuned for Part Deux)

 

[uchaboo]

lol here's the rest...(didn't want the MassagePlanetL server to crash lol)

After reading the replies and doing some further thinking, I came up with another idea I thought I'd seek your opinion on...

Currently, I'm at:
30 mins for $40
60 mins for $60
90 mins for $80
2 hrs for $100

If they pay cash versus check, subtract $5. If they rebook before leaving, subtract another $5 from their NEXT appt. Deep Tissue/NMT are included.

I have one MT friend who doesn't designate specific lengths of time; rather, she has "short", "medium", and "long" sessions. (I'm not sure if those are the words she uses with her client, but anyway...) That way, it gives her some leeway. I think I like that...

What I'm thinking is this:
Focus Massage - 30-45 min for $45 (increase of $5)
(regular massage) - 60-75 min for $70 (increase of $10)
Ideal Session - 90-105 min for $90 (increase of $10)
Extended session - 120-135 min for $115 (increase of $15)

Since most ppl pay cash anyway, I could go to a cash-only system, except for well-established clients, and axe the cash discount. I would, however, still keep the $5 re-book discount in place.

This will benefit the client in that it allows me to spend a couple extra mins on a stubborn trigger point or do a little more suboccipital work or whatever. They are guaranteed at least the low end on the table, up to the high end. It benefits me because I am able to raise my prices without appearing to do so. Yes, I know the prices are higher and everyone can see that. But the session lengths are also a little longer (because usually they'll average somewhere between the high and low ends), AND they're getting Hot Stone AND the electronic machine treatments included. (Machine work will probably, as melb suggested, be used pretty much in the longer sessions, though I'll do it in any session if the client requests it.)

And, most of the therapists in my area charge about $65/hr (some $70) for Swedish (some charge more for Deep, some don't), and most don't even offer Hot Stone or any extras like that. So that might be an added bonus, too.

So whadday'all think of the variable lengths and corresponding prices? Sound fair?

Thanks in advance!!

t049

Hugs,
~Jyoti

 

[Davie J.]

The director of one of the schools I went to had one price $125 for her bodywork service. You came to her with a problem or whatever and she would work until she felt the outcome was achieved. (I never went to her so don't know her capabilities).

So it can make sense to have a set price and it might be 30 minutes you get or it might be 45 minutes. But if I paid for that session I would want 45 minutes. Most people who come to me for 30 mintues either don't want to spend money for an hour or they have never had a massage before and they don't want to commit to an hour. I get the feeling that people who schedule 30 minutes either don't want to spend more money, or they just want the basic back massage. Or both. So if I scheduled your cheapest session for my back, I'd still want you to keep finding places to work on for 45 minutes.


One of my clients comes to me weekly for an hour and a half relaxation massage (reads: she does not want me to find areas to work on, she wants to have gliding strokes of varying pressure). I really believe that people just like to be touched and once they are relaxed they just want to keep being relaxed, which means you keep going. Of course there are the handful that get antsy if they are still for too long.

My point is that if I know that I am paying for a session that could go 60 to 75 minutes, but it only went 60, then I would feel short changed. I want to be touched and worked on until the cows come home, but I only have $$ to spend.

Perhaps you would consider:

Jyoti's Signature Massage 105 min of integrated massage, with hot stone, and the magic machine (whatever it is called) leaves you the best you have felt in years...$90

and other services you offer and add ons:

30 $40 integrated massage
60 $60 integrated massage

machine add on $
stone add on $

(and with these add ons, it's only the price added, not time to the massage)

Then if you see people are adding on or whatever, you can say, "why not just do the signature massage, it's only so many minutes more for an extra very little money..."

Perhaps you could also offer the maint. plan or whatever the discount is you decide to give when people rebook for the signature massage only, since that seems like the one you want to do the most of.

I don't understand the discount you give for cash vs. check. I have heard of up front payment discount vs. insurance payment and that makes sense. Have you been burned with checks before? Do you have a returned check policy? Am I just missing something with this one?

I like what you are doing and I hope you find a happy medium between making your clients happiest and making you happiest.

 

[I can haz your soul]

Jyoti, one other thought I had was that sometimes clients have allotted a specific amount of time for a massage, they have made other plans for afterward and don't really have the option of going, say, 75 minutes when it's an hour massage. I do, though, like your plan to "name" the sessions. Just be clear with your clients that they need to plan for the extra time if it is warrented during that session.

What I'm thinking is this:
Focus Massage - 30-45 min for $45 (increase of $5)
(regular massage) - 60-75 min for $70 (increase of $10)
Ideal Session - 90-105 min for $90 (increase of $10)
Extended session - 120-135 min for $115 (increase of $15)

I once (very early in my schooling "outside hours") told someone I'd work on him for an hour (actually I might not have been that specific, but that's what he assumed). Anyway, it was a hot stone massage, and I really got into it and went way over on time. I was thinking, "wow, he's going to love this," and all of a sudden he lifted his head and said, "Oh my god, what time is it?" He had somewhere he had to be, and boy, did I finish up quickly after that. But it was a lesson to me. Never again will I go "over" the time without first making sure they're OK with that.

I wonder if, over time, you'll find yourself going closer to 45 minutes for every "30-45" minute massage?

 

[dnt4get2luvme]

Hi y'all!

Thanks for the input so far!

So it can make sense to have a set price and it might be 30 minutes you get or it might be 45 minutes. But if I paid for that session I would want 45 minutes. Most people who come to me for 30 mintues either don't want to spend money for an hour or they have never had a massage before and they don't want to commit to an hour. I get the feeling that people who schedule 30 minutes either don't want to spend more money, or they just want the basic back massage. Or both. So if I scheduled your cheapest session for my back, I'd still want you to keep finding places to work on for 45 minutes."

AKB raises a good point. Some clients, if left "unchecked" would probably pursue this exact train of thought. And I anticipated this possibility as well. I think that when they call for that first appointment, and I explain the length/fee schedule, I will make it clear that they are guaranteed at LEAST the low end, and not more than the high end. I will tell them that it will average out somewhere in the middle, and if a session is closer to the low end one time, it'll probably be closer to the high end the next. (Implied will be the idea that I cut it off when I cut it off--we work to satisfy our clients, but in the end we're the professionals who have the final say in a situation like this.) I will bill the variable session as a positive...that I'm not tied as tightly to a clock and that if something needs a little extra work, it gets a little extra work, and conversely, if muscles release a little quicker than anticipated, I don't end up overtreating.

machine add on $
stone add on $

This is also a good idea. My husband and I considered this at first. However, with so few people knowing about this machine and its benefits, it hasn't penetrated much of the population, and ppl can seem reluctant to try it, let alone pay more for it. (Personally, with what I know it can do, I know that to charge much more is still a steal!) But I also figured I'd keep things simple. We have a pretty diverse menu (someday, or upon anyone's request, I'll post it) and so with so many different types of sessions available, we TRY to keep the fees as consistent as possible. I LOVE the idea, though. Perhaps someday we can implement that!

...sometimes clients have allotted a specific amount of time for a massage, they have made other plans for afterward and don't really have the option of going, say, 75 minutes when it's an hour massage....Just be clear with your clients that they need to plan for the extra time if it is warrented during that session.

Yeah, I can see that. I agree, I've been in situations where I, as a client, was REALLY hoping an appt didn't run later, ks I was on a tight schedule that day. I'm currently on the straight 30-60-90 schedule and if I find a stubborn spot that needs extra work, I always ask the client if they have anywhere to be after the appt, or do they mind if I went a few minutes over to properly address a spot. Nine times out of 10, they'll say no, go ahead, and they'll be thankful that you're giving them the extra work. But it's that one off-chance that they'll have somewhere to be or something else they wanted to do, so I ALWAYS ask.

With the new variable session lengths, I'll be very up-front; if they sign up for a Full Session, 60-75 minutes, I tell them they will get AT LEAST 60 minutes, but UP TO 75, so budget for 75 *just in case*. I'll then say that the session will fall anywhere in between. That way, they know how much time to budget for.

I do, though, like your plan to "name" the sessions.

Thanks Yeah, my husband and I thought that was rather important. That way, everyone's clear. I'm still trying to think up a catchy name for the hour+ session (the "Full") The 30-45 min is the "Focus Massage", and the 90-105 is the "Ideal Session" (indicating that this is the most popular and most beneficial...and as a perk, it's also the easiest for me lol), and the 120-135 is the "Extended Vacation", which I sort of like (it's cute). But not sure what to call the 60-75 min. Oh well. It'll come.

I wonder if, over time, you'll find yourself going closer to 45 minutes for every "30-45" minute massage?

Perhaps But if/when that time comes, it'll be way down the road, and it'll probably be in conjunction with another rate hike (again, WAY in the future) lol 8)

Thanks for all the good viewpoints, and anyone else who feels like it, feel free to chime in!

Hugs,
~Jyoti

 

[a.e.b]

However, with so few people knowing about this machine and its benefits, it hasn't penetrated much of the population, and ppl can seem reluctant to try it, let alone pay more for it. (Personally, with what I know it can do, I know that to charge much more is still a steal!)

Jyoti - have you got a Vibrocussor or soemthing different? I am curious.

Also, I like the idea of talking about your work with the term "variable" sessions. That sounds very nice. Kudos to whoever came up with that terminology!

May I suggest changing the variablity to 10 minutes. I think it will make it easier for the client to loose any feelings of being "jipped" if they didn't receive the whole extra "variable" 15 mins. of time. Just a thought.

And, I added an idea for the wording of your "hour" session.


Focus Massage - 30-40 min for $45 (increase of $5)
Standard Session (?) - 60-70 min for $70 (increase of $10)
Ideal Session - 90-100 min for $90 (increase of $10)
Extended Vacation - 120-130 min for $115 (increase of $15)

 

[Pompal 09.]

Jyoti as for your machine... would it be possible for you to for the first month or so... the first time a client comes in give them a "coupon" for a free sample of 5-10 minutes or whatever with the machine? If you really think it is more effective, and the client tries it once for a little while and agrees... then you'd have clients more likely to request you "add that on" ... wouldn't you?
Still you'd have to have in mind what price you were going to charge before you started offering it...

 

[moo]

Y'all gave some GREAT ideas

I'm considering doing the add-on thing that maestra suggested, at least until I can find a cheaper source of electropads, but that's for a different thread later lol.

What we have is a "Tennant Biomodulator". It's a SCENAR (pronounced SKAY-nar) biofeedback device. It works on a cellular level. If anyone wants any further info, I'm happy to tell you whatever you want to know, either on the board or off. Suffice it to say it's a REALLY cool little thing.

I think I'm going to implement the variability to 10 mins, because you're right; too wide of an orb of time just sets up the situation to yield some jipped feelings. That way, we still have the variability, but it's not so much that ppl might complain or worse, cease to come back.

Oh, and about the check policy... I haven't been burned or anything )knock on wood). It's just that 1) most ppl pay me cash anyway and 2) having both a re-schedule discount (which is more important that they reschedule than if they pay cash) AND a cash discount eat into my profits, and 3) I'll accept checks from clients once they're established and regular (it's a perk I can offer to my regulars, and once they're established I know them anyway). Even though I haven't yet had problems, if I have any check problems in the future, it's probably going to be from someone who doesn't really have any intention of coming back anyway. By not accepting checks until a client is familiar to me and schedules regularly, I figure I'm a little safer. Of course it's not a guarantee, but it does cut the odds.

Thanks!!
Hugs,
~Jyoti

 

[Curt J]

I'm not sure if this is helpful ino your quest for a name, but for Thai I offer 60, 90, or 120 minutes. And I labeled them simply "good", "better" and "best". Most people new to Thai choose "good" or "better" first and then get hooked and only want more and more and more time after the initial session because then they understand how it layers and builds on itself...you can't do 'just the back' in an hour session of Thai.

Your thread makes me think I should find more elaborate names for the distinctions!

For hot stones, many folks like me to use them on their back, so to add that to any wellness table session I charge an extra $10. I can heat them in my little microwave very quickly in their baby crock-pot and then put them in the crock-cooker to stay warm until use...so much easier to clean than the huge roaster. I think you'll find that as you get used to the stones you can do a full-body session in an hour, especially if you can resist the urge to work on every problem spot that pops up and ditch those fussy little between-toe stones. Otherwise you'll want to just offer it as a longer session.

 

[farzkitty]

I'm not sure if this is helpful ino your quest for a name, but for Thai I offer 60, 90, or 120 minutes. And I labeled them simply "good", "better" and "best". Most people new to Thai choose "good" or "better" first and then get hooked and only want more and more and more time after the initial session because then they understand how it layers and builds on itself...you can't do 'just the back' in an hour session of Thai.

Off the topic: I always wondered about Thai. Thanks for giving this brief but very nice explanation!