Spa Union?

[timmy7]

I have an idea.. maybe it's crazy.. but here it goes..

Many girls come and go from the massage parlor industry. Some leave to go somewhere else, some are released due to lateness or other reasons, some just retire. Clients are left wondering where they went. If a girl does not work at a particular establishment anymore and goes to another establishment for work, owners have no idea of what happened, what the girl is like or if they are taking a chance or found a diamond. Usually the outcome isn't realized until the girl is already working there.

Girls have no idea where to go for work, who to trust, where to make money, who is fair, which owners will treat them respectfully, etc.

In the everyday world, when we go from one job to another, we carry a resume and/or a refrerence letter with us. In the massage parlor industry or escort industry.. there is no such thing.

I was thinking in the direction specifically of the spa industry. I was thinking that maybe a Union could be formed to help in these situations and I was interested in doing such a thing, but I wanted to hear your thoughts on it first.

Would the girls/owners benefit from such a thing?

(P.S. Fred, not sure if it would have been best to post this here or in the lounge - I apologize if it's in the wrong place.)

 

[The White Guinea Pig]

I think it would offer some benefits in terms of regulation and knowing a ladies experience, but I think a lot of ladies would have a problem with having a record of their working in the industry existing, I would imagine anonimity is pretty important to some.

 

[Raisin]

I loathe unions.
While I know where you're coming from and your intentions, I think it'll just lead to greater headaches and legalities.

Yes, it's a tough world out there. And certainly spa owners are always taking advantage of young girls. But unfortunately, I'm not sure much would be accomplished with a union. I know when I was part of a union, I never felt I was properly represented anyways.

Besides, the last thing we need is a MPA strike in during the hot summer months!

 

[loves christmas lights]

I'd like to think that if an Attendant leaves a MP under amicable conditions, the Owner/Manager would have no problem giving her a letter of recommendation. But if not, I don't think a union would enforce it or help the transition.

As for working conditions at a particular MP or Escort Agency, it would probably be better controlled by an Owner Coalition as opposed to the providers trying to police it. Certain criteria must be established and met to be in this "group" and the list is published. The criteria must be with the customer in mind, but certainly should include the employees. If a Parlour is determined in conflict, is struggling with employee issues, a slew of bad reviews claiming ripoffs etc. , this board of Owners could prove to be of benefit. After all, a few bad reviews can hurt the innocent providers and their ability to make money.

The danger...yes, price fixing. You can't have a group of Owners sitting around discussing issues without money being a primary concern. Price fixing to the customer and salary caps, hours, etc to the employees. Yours is a tough business to regulate. Girls may have to rely on the "old timers" and yes, boards such as these to screen what's considered to be class establishments. And again, a class owner should have no problem providing a good employee with a reference.

Very well placed intentions Kayla. There is room for improvement on all sides of this industry.

 

[sweetest]

The existence of massageplanet.net probably has more positive impact than anything else could, as it allows communication of information about the state of things at agencies.

It may be a "Net of a Million Lies" (coining Vernor Vinge's term), but some truth can get percieved through it...

 

[Shard F]

Interesting subject and not an easy one to put a handle on.

In general, I don't think Unions work anymore (moreso in the private sector than the public sector) and I'm not a big fan. This is not meant to piss off any union members out there but Unions were formed in the early part of the 20th century to essentially force employers to recognize employee rights (re: benefits and working conditions). With current Labour Laws that need has virtually disappeared. I too would hate to think of price fixing as a result that would counter the competitive nature of free enterprise.

I think this review board is a good indicator of the quality of girl she is (if she's moving onto a new spa). Also, if the owners are reputable they should freely give letters of recommendation. In this industry I think word of mouth is better than a resume. The trick is when the girls decide to retire from this business and move onto something more mainstream what do they say their employments history was that's where the value of a Union (or some other form of representative body) would come in - although potential employer's perceptions of the industry would still be a barrier.

If disputes errupt between attendants & owners what is the governing body to act as arbitrator. Will the courts recognize the body rub industry since many spas are unlicensed? You may even consider joining with other reputable spas to form a coalition of Licensed MP's and Licensed MPA's who share concerns, share legal counsil (if needed), provide financial advisors, and act as a placement agency for attendants when and if they decide to move to another spa.

I like you thinking however with gilrs moving all the time to find the right fit.

 

[gretchen]

Hornet,

Unions have existed since the 18th century, not the 20th. They have existed for far more than just improving the current Emplyoment Standards Act or the Labour Relations Act. Improving legislation is an important part but only a part of the role of unions. You forget another small part called Collective Bargaining, which usually results in higher pay that can spent and spread throughout the economy. Take five minutes to consider how money would flow if it was held in the hands of few. Better yet, just look at third world countries where this is a reality. The social benefits of dispersed income are overwhelming. Why is it that the most advanced countries in the world generally have the highest rates of organized labour.

 

[DeathClub.]

gryfin,

Ok, fine they existed earlier. I bet if someone did research they'd find that in some form or another they existed earlier then you think depending on how you define your requirements. I don't proclaim to know alot about the history of Labour movements and the Unionization of the Industrialized country's workforces. All I meant was that the strongest Unions of today proliferated in the 20th century and the most well known ones today were formed in the early part of the 20th century (CAW for example - I assume since there were almost no cars in the 19th century).

I don't want to start a debate on Unions (per my comment "this is not meant to piss off any union members") as it would go on forever. I fully understand and even partially agree with your point on higher pay and I'll leave it at that instead of getting into a debate on the opening up of the Global Economy and production shifting to lower cost geographies. Besides, I really don't think these girls need to seek higher incomes with the money they bring in.

No need to get into a Marxist/Free Enterprise debate when Kayla is posing a question on whether or not it is feasible for her industry.

 

[?Mamibella]

.. with a review board.. regardless which one it is.. being sufficient enough information.

I will give you an example.. I received a pm from another spa owner asking me about a girl who worked for me at one point. The spa owner asked me why the girl was no longer at HFH as they were thinking of hiring this girl. We were able to communicate these things that would never be posted here or talked about afterwards. When a girl leaves a particular spa.. do you really believe that the truth be told here on massageplanet.net or MBB? And even if the owners posted on the boards exactly why.. would they not be flamed from speaking the truth?

If a girl is looking for somewhere else to work, does she post here on massageplanet.net or MBB - 'hey guys.. had a bad situation with an owner that tends to sexually assualt his girls or at least make them feel that they have to perform sexual favors in order to work at his/her establishment - can you refer me to a place that I can make money and not have to do this?' Do you believe that a girl would post this? Or that she would feel comfortable speaking about what really happened regardless if it was the situation exampled above or not?

Guys come on review boards and post crap such as 'so and so is pregnant' and 'so and so drives an XYZ car' .. etc. So what if there is a post suggesting that 'Nancy' left 'ABC spa' because the owner gave her a hard time... when in all actuality, 'Nancy' was fired from 'ABC spa' not because she was a bad service provider but because she didn't show up for work. When a spa called 'DEF' hires her, it's guess work. The thing is, I know at my biz, I expect employees to treat their job as any other job and I expect that owners should respect their employees as individuals as well. The idea that I had of a 'union' or whatever it should be called, was a line of communication between owners firstly and then girls secondly. But like I said, it was just a thought

 

[Jona B]

can be given to your idea Kayla. My problem is this. How do you know who is telling the truth?

The girl states that she was assault at ABC Spa by the owner. The owner says she is lying and was fired for stealing clients. You in turn believe the owner but several months later you hear the exact same story about the owner of ABC Spa by not just one girl but by several other people.

The only problem I see with this concept is that not every story you are told is the truth and anyone in turn could destroy someones reputation for not having the clear facts and repeating said story.

So not less we are not walking around with evidence or a lie detector device readily available I think the concept has merit but almost impossible to impliment.

 

[Stephanie S]

.. points made by Laura as well as golo make sense.. although I guess I lost my faith in truth's on review boards and I would trust what I read here less than what I would hear. Things have changed.. it's not like it used to be..

Besides that.. I will say.. that if there are any other owners out there.. or girls out there.. who would like to find out more about another establishments or attendants.. I would be quite prepared to give references or any knowledge that I have available to me. However, I won't post that information publicly.

P.S. In the years I have been on the net and involved in boards, I always try to remind myself of the wise words that Lyla once said to me, 'everyone is trying to re-invent the wheel Kayla when they should be coming up with something original.'

 

[shadedskies]

It would be fun coming up with a logo for this union.

 

[Pompal 09.]

Owners can communicate by email or phone and have a meeting a few times a year. The owner of Joe's Spa will want to get into the good books of Paul and Kayla in order to get the second tier talent.

Perhaps the first tier girls and hobbiests have much of this information about MPA performance. There just has to be a way how it can be communicated.

 

[Pompal 09.]

one question: who would this organization be for, the MPA's or the owners/managers? if it's for the owners it would work well but if it's the MPA's I'm not as sure the interest would be there. only thing with an owners organization is there would have to be a lot of personal policing, otherwise the fear of MPA's being blackballed by a prick owner could cause a lot of problems.

 

[www.envylacewigs.com]

I'm not sure how functional it is but it seems to be similar to Kayla's idea

 

[Violet Schuyler]

The question is, "sufficient for what?"

I agree that a board like massageplanet.net is not sufficient to right all ills. But it is by no means evident that other approaches would necessarily resolve the ills without having concommittant disadvantages of their own.

An "MP owners association" is liable to attract a whole lot of underworld attention, seeing as how some MPs are associated with motorcycle gangs, and others seem to have associations with other "cultural-group-based" organized crime groups. You may be fine, but if a bunch of spas have associations with shady organizations, that definitely casts a significant shadow over anything that could get built up.

The same could easily be true for a "MPA association;" it appears likely that a significant number of the Asian and East European MPAs are drawn into the business in a manner not dissimilar to "involuntary indenture," and to the extent to which there are underworld connections to that, again, there's a "big, dangerous shadow" lurking about.

Even considering that people on massageplanet.net are known to write dishonest things more than just "on occasion," it may nonetheless be the case that this sort of thing is the most potently useful mechanism.

In assorted "vaguely recent" revolutions in China and Russia, the fact that news could go in and out via "instant messaging" and fax machines had a significant effect on the outcomes, because dastardly folks knew they couldn't keep it all secret. Fax machines can't knock out Chinese tanks, but they have been known to lead to bloody orders being toned down.

There shouldn't be too many tanks driving through spa parking lots but it seems to me that the principle still holds...

 

[~ <3 ~]

Everyone must keep in mind that it's a Net of a Million Lies, coined by Vernor Vinge in A Fire Upon the Deep. That book includes a stream of "news articles" from an assortment of aliens, every one involving some amount of "agenda." Some articles are propaganda, others downright dishonest. The most interesting ones come from some obscure aliens that never get seen beyond the messages; they actually don't totally understand what is going on, and think the "humans" are the critters with six legs, which leads to their opinions getting discarded, but it later seems evident that they know more about some crucial ancient history than everyone else put together. I digress...

In real life, on massageplanet.net, we see a large assortment of largely-anonymous people. Some jokers say stupid things, totally intentionally. Occasionally, MPAs come in and "shill" for their own services.

And it's actually pretty obvious when someone's lying 'for political gain.' The person that drops in and, as a "1 posts" user, starts bashing a spa is quite likely to be a disgruntled ex-MPA or an irritated customer that more than likely deserves to be ignored.

It's not all that difficult to distinguish between real problems and disgruntled fools.

 

[Suffi]

Unions are not the answer Kayla. What I suggest you do is start an association of owners. Every industry has its own trade association where the owners and managers circulate for "betterment" of the industry as a whole.

It will become obvious which owners are serious and which ones take it as a joke. For example I've heard rumours of one spa owner forcing the girls to give him a bj or blackmailing them for money in exchange for returning their licenses. An industry council could deal with greviances of staff members.

Keep it simple. Perhaps call it the body rub owners association or BROA for short. Stickers or membership placard on display will reassure both clients and staff alike.

 

[Gym Jock]

Tenant Probe runs a service like the one you are discussing. Landlords/members can check with that service to see if there are any negative comments on a potential tenant. This service cost money, don

 

[hallowtim]

Airboss, all the girls in the MP business are independant contractors. In other words they are not an employee of the MP. Thus the owners can avoid WSIB, CPP and employment related taxes such as EI, Income, etc.