The Tamara Experience

[darkday]

I have lasciviously been watching that gorgeous bottom since Tamara first posted it :shock: and I could wait no longer. Today was to be the day that I had to see it for myself in the flesh :twisted: .

There are times in life when personal experiences fail to live up to the weight of expectation. Classic examples include New Years Eve and the “first time”. We build it up and build it up until it can do nothing else but disappoint .

Such were my fears and anxieties today as I tentatively knocked on the door of Tamara’s luxury apartment.

Her photos show a smooth skinned, long legged, very busty attractive red head, who is obviously built for speed not comfort. So why the anxiety?

[Side Bar your honour: I recently had a wonderful experience with a lady whose photos, just like Tamara’s, showed the bottom half of her face (unfortunately the more attractive ½ and when added to the top half was quite disconcerting). She was not at all what I expected but the experience was great all the same (may tell you about it another day).] Perhaps that was the source of my trepidation. Fear of being disappointed or of feeling a little shaken.

I searched the net for word of her service. Not a bad word spoken of her anywhere. Nothing ... I mean nothing … at all. Not a good word either. No reviews my Reviewiend! How can that be? Why? Is she not beautiful? Is she not lithe and athletic? Is the experience so bad that no one will ever book, or if they do they refuse to talk about it? Who can know?

Bugger it – if only to touch and kiss those amazing cheeks. ½ for $140? I’m on my way.

So that is how I found myself outside her door feeling nervous and more than a little worried :? .

As she approached the door the sound of the clip clop of her heels on the tiles grew and with it my means of escape rapidly evaporated.

The door slowly glided open to reveal a wonderful, luxury apartment, darkened but eerily (or romantically – depending on the number of x chromosomes you possess) bathed in candlelight.

In the dark I spied Tamara looking very tall. As my eyes adjusted to the dark it dawned on me that Tamara is a lovely looking lady – a very lovely looking lady.

I had to take a few moments to gather myself because Tamara was in fact sensational looking :shock: . Wow! I’ll pay $140 for this any day (the thought flies in one side of my brain and quickly departs without stopping – “how can others less gifted charge so much more” – another discussion for another day).

Tamara is tall. Very tall. In fact she was wearing heals which allowed her an unobstructed view of the greying follicles on top of my head. The heels give her calf an athletic shape and that bottom a more perfect look (if that is possible). I recall thinking to myself that those legs were so long that this is what they mean when they say their legs goon forever. I would not have been surprised if perhaps Jack had descended any moment clutching a magical singing harp with a Giant in hot pursuit.

Her shape is extremely womanly, D bust, small waist, well rounded hips. Yes mp.net, I am taken with her looks. Can you tell?

Pleasantries exchanged and into the shower. As I prepared I asked Tamara what she felt uncomfortable with and was told no DATY, no kissing on the lips, no greek, no bbbj. No problem.

First course: Massage and body slide. Let me skip to the end of this entree to relieve the suspense … WOW!!! The BEST Reviewontal body slide I’ve EVER had. Really knows how to use those sensational breasts (one of which has a pierced nipple).

Mains: “Which position would you prefer?” I love it when they are considerate enough to ask that. Don’t you? Cowgirl to start with lots of nipple play and exploring. Then over to doggie to (yes, you guessed it) watch that perfect anatomical gift in action – I also noticed just how good her figure is. I could almost encircle her waist with my hands even though I tried (bizarre that that was what I was thinking about at that exact moment though – I still can’t explain it). Then finished with missionary.

My only concern in the entire booking was that perhaps Tamara wasn’t quite with me on an emotional/mental plane. But in this instance I have no problems with her absence – if that was the case.

She washed my back and we talked and she expressed her slight embarrassment and disappointment that no one had posted a review as yet so I assured her that I would.

So come on guys – she says she’s busy and advertising on the net works for her but where are the reviews?

So all in all – this was NOT one of those times in life when personal experiences fail to live up to the weight of expectation.

Yes Governor, I'll Be Back!

 

[Ray L]

I have also visited Tamara but had a different experience.

Yes, I agree with ozozoz in regards to her looks. Her pictures certainly match (I bet I know exactly who you are talking about ozozoz with the lady who's bottom half photo's don't match the top half!). I suppose it's possible to consider the "candlelight setting" as romantic, but I see it as being cold on Tamara's behalf in a way. When it's dark it would be very easy to distance herself mentally Reviewom reality!!

During my experience (about 1 month ago) the DON'T's certainly outweighed the DO's. You can add "cowgirl" to the list of DON'T's. It seems that Tamara may have changed her mind in this regard??

My personal experience was of a somewhat mechanical experience where, mpter a pleasant massage / bodyslide, it was left entirely up to me to "do all the work". Not my cuppa tea.

Maybe others are out there that had a similar experience. Since Tamara didn't have any reviews up on the site, I didn't want to be her first review with a somewhat negative tone throughout....

Sorry guys.....

 

[wannamcfranzwiththat]

oh

We have a juxtoposition, if thats how you spell it.

 

[Andrew T]

In regards to my candlelight effect i use them to make the experience with me more relaxing for my clients. Not to distance myself Reviewom reality. :roll:

I enjoy what i do otherwise i wouldn't be there and if you didn't enjoy your time with me then i am sorry

Getting to my DON'TS as you put it are... My clients can not preform oral on me, i don't kiss on the lips and i don't do greek
I find these a reasonable request and i am sure there are other girls who would agree.

Cowgirl on the otherhand is something i proform with my clients when i feel comfortable with them.

Also what do you mean you did all the work i don't understand
i do lots in the room with the men i see. i feel comfortable with some more than others and i am sorry if i didn't do cowgirl with you perhaps we just didn't hit it of blackmax

 

[missundertaker]

No worries Tamara.

Like I said, I don't want to get involved in any mud slinging on this site (anymore ).

I just wanted to post about my experience which differed Reviewom ozozoz. As you said in your post, cowgirl is only offered when you feel "comfortable" with the person. I've only ever experienced one other WL who has refused to offer cowgirl, which I thought was the norm nowadays. Maybe I've just been spoilt 8)

Please don't misunderstand me Tamara, I am not passing judgement on the services you offer.

I didn't think it was fair of ozozoz to offer a review that really didn't give a true indication of what services someone would receive when they saw you for the first time.

At least potential customers now know what to expect before they see you. I thinks that's only fair.

 

[Pompal 09.]

Gawd...

...this MUST be a sign that the Apocalypse is at hand. First Campbell Newman opposes a 77 storey tower being built in brisbane, putting me on the same side as a Liberal, and now I find myself more in agreement with blackmax than ozozoz!

Note: I have NOT seen Tamara, so my agreement is not with regard to how good she is as a WL or not. Please keep this in mind.

However, I think that it was more of a difference in emphasis, rather than a juxtaposition. Ozozoz DID in fact mention Tamara's "don'ts" list but it was surrounded by a very favourable review. So it would tend to be passed over very quickly.

On the other hand, blackmax focussed much more on the don'ts and how (in his view) they led to a less than satisfactory outcome.

To my mind, the presence or otherwise of various acts can be overcome by a nice meeting of personalities - for example when I saw Aamie, she didn't kiss or DATY, but I enjoyed myself immensely - but since Carly and Jayvee have reminded us all that both mp.net and WL are merely performances, we can assume that there is no actual pleasure to be gained Reviewom two people meeting talking etc. and so such pleasure is itself illusion.

On the other hand, this also means that nothing in either mp.net's review can be taken as a 'fact'. I can assume that tamara used candles but not whether it was for atmosphere (her claim) or to avoid intimacy (blackmax's claim).

So I propose that we abolish reviews all together, as the whole interaction between mp.net and WL does not actually exist in any form of objective reality. How's that?

 

[Absent]

Oh, as for cowgirl...

... this is a fairly rare thing, but I HAVE seen it with a few WLs, that cowgirl gets coded as being a position that is more revealing (both physically - you can see the woman's whole body more or less) and emotionally (because unlike missionary or doggie the face is in full view) and thus something that they don't want to do with just everyone, in the samw way as many Wls will kiss selectively.

Since this intimacy is the very reason it is my position of choice, I can hardly criticise someone for being reluctant to share that with every client.

Not that I am saying that is why tamara doesn't - I am not her, nor have I met her, and even if I did I still wouldn't have access to her thoughts!

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to Michael Moore's site to argue why the Gulf War didn't in fact happen and it was all a media simulacrum. I love post-theory...

 

[Kaye B]

Wow!

Obviously hit a nerve with you NLB! didn't mean to imply that sex work isn't great, OR that it's all just a performance!

Obviously there some interactions going on with people - the success of this forum and chatroom is testament to that, not even including some of the experieces I have had in the bedroom.

What I am saying is that wl's don't always have connections with people at work - just like everyone else who goes to work! What wl's do at work is create an illusion of intimacy to various degrees. if wl's really felt that intimacy to the extent that we project it, we'd never get past one client to the next! That skill is of "conscious caring" is commonly used in other "feminised" professions too like nursing, teaching, child care and hairdressing and has been documented.

It's easier for me to say this stuff as I am no longer working so any anger guys might feel (and this is not my intention) about the truth Reviewom my perspective is not going to mpfect my income. I did discuss raising these sorts of issues with some other great wl's on this site who support these views but aren't wanting to put ther names to such posts for obvious reasons.

Having said all of that I want to repsond to the point Black Max made re not getting the same services as OzOzOz. OzOzOz is a very nice, personable person who treats wls with respect and charm. He talks to you, LISTENS to you, is intelligent. I don't think he will mind me saying this coz he posted a review of me once so he obviously didnt mind people knowing he saw me. My experience is that he treats bookings like a "date' and so i am not surprised he gets treated well by wls and writes good reviews of them - he brings out the best in you so to speak and you are having a great time and want him to have a great time too.

Perhaps that's the difference - guys who trea wls well tend to get greats ervice Reviewom them. We are human and like other workers, treat people as they treat us. I have seen posters come and go on various ladies and post quite different reviews on the same lady and I can definatley see a pattern with those guys who treat ladies better getting great service and cosnequently the wl getting great reviews.

Tamara is quite right - it is most likely she and Black max did not hit it off. If Blackmax's experiences aren't (generally speaking) as good as other clients then maybe there's soemthing to be learned Reviewom that.

Again, NLB I am sorry if I hurt your feelings and please be assured that it isn't all just a performance! You point out that wl's services are often provided selectively. That is a good indicator of different levels of interaction/intimacy achieved.

Kind regards

 

[Serghey]

Actually...

...you've misinterpreted my post. I was NOT angry at what you were saying, just exasperated at the way in which they were couched.

Here's some things I feel (I won't say 'think') about the sex work experience:

1. different services get provided to different clients. Either by virtue of 'connection' or by extra money.

2. both participants ARE engaged in performance while they are there. Since this is what you think 'touched a nerve' with me, let me be straightforward here. I AGREE. Always have. I have literally hundreds of posts all over the net, many of which refer to this concept either explicitedly (posts about the profession or industry) or implicitedly (reviews mainly).

3. the way in which ANYONE is perceived by another is a performance.

4. there is no 'self', just a series of roles and performances, in broader society anyway (post-humanist theory). There is literally NO ONE PERSON who 'knows' the 'full me' - and that includes myself. Who I am at uni is different to who I am on this forum is different to who I am politically is different to who I am when flirting at a party... but they're all 'me'. Which renders the idea of a coherent individual self redundant.

5. so why should sex work be any different?

6. that both people are playing a role doesn't mean that connection is impossible. Even if both people have fake names, fictional life stories (I'm sure that I don't need to tell any WLs that guys make up stories they tell WLs) etc. if there IS such a thing as a 'true self' it comes through anyway. Since I don't believe in a 'true self' this might look contradictory, but it's more an extra level for those who disagree on points 3 and 4.

7. even if connection only happens on the level of an approximation, so what?

8. there are many many reasons for seeking sex workers. Any attempt to judge one person's reasons or motivations - judge, as opposed to explore, note - winds up imprisoning us all.

I have been Reviewustrated for nearly a year, ever since seeing Nicole, at the limitations of the review paradigm. Quite a few of my reviews since then have been conscious attempts to break through this. At times I feel I have (my anti-review of Brooke for example) but I still feel trapped.

But the strictures that would be imposed if the implications of certain posts this week were followed would make the whole effort pointless. Don't review someone you've only seen once - you can't evaluate them fairly. Don't review someone you've seen often - they might be providing services to you that they wouldn't otherwise because they're more comfortable with you. Don't talk about them in purely physical terms because that's objectification. But don't talk about their personalities because who they are in a room isn't who they 'really' are.

Right, now I really have to get going on this music assignment.

 

[Danielle S]

Setting aside all the University degrees and large words like "juxtoposition" - (hehehe I like that word - sounds like a kinky sex position!!) - this is my 2 cents worth.

Tamara (and all WL's) simply have the right to choose what she will and won't do with clients and it is not cool for a client to get shirty because she won't perform a certain act on you when another WL has and will, or that same WL (e.g. in this case - Tamara) has performed a particular service for another client but not you. The choice is hers.

Addressing connection - example - yesterday - Thursday - I connected well with each and every fella that came thru my door except the last one where he felt cold as ice to me even though he attempted conversation - I tried to connect but didn't happen so I withdrew and simply performed the service with little fun and play and banter. I don't like it when I come across someone I don't find a connection with because I feel like the guy is judging me or not really there for a good time - I don't know - it's a weird feeling and I always feel like calling the session off and sending him home. (Bet the guy Reviewom yesterday is writing a review as I write this LOL). I simply like for there to be a connection because it makes for a better session both physically and mentally.

As for performance - is it all put on, or is it the real me?? 50-50 with me - I give a lot of my real self - not that that's a problem with me (or the guys - I hope) - personally, I would really like to be more the fantasy girl (performance girl - cutesy blonde bimbo slut type act) than a real person because you (the client) get reality in your life - you come to see me to escape reality and play the fantasy. I'm half real, half Naughty Nikki - so far a combination that has worked for me, I tried to go slut for a while - glove didn't fit. I can understand why most girls are all facade - they need to separate themselves and protect their real selves - which is a fair call. As for the fake name issue - mine is simply because my real name is boring and doesn't sound sexy at all. Guys fake names I assume is to conceal identity or to carry out a fantasy role perhaps??

Different services to different clients - you betcha!!!! Regular visitors and Guys Reviewom chat - get more out of me than one-off visitors. Why?? Don't really know to be honest - a rapport is already there?? It's easier to let myself go with them even if they are a first-timer but I have chatted with them in chat - I still feel like I've known them a while?? Anyone out there a psychologist??

First timers get a more passive service because of the need to get to know what they like - guys aren't big on communication - so it takes some "feeling my way" to find out if they want mild or wild. Regs get a more wicked, cheeky service.

Oooh cowgirl position mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm enough said. Each to their own. hehehe

Sorry I'm flicking back thru the posts while writing this - addressing the points I feel the need to.

Definitely review someone you've seen once. Definitely review someone you've seen before - because people in general should be able to get an idea of what they are going to get. Not all first time visits are crap. Not all regular visits are good. Objectify away - it's part and parcel of the job - when we advertise on the internet most girls know they are going to be rated at one point or another.

There is no escape now - if you give a less than average session - it's going to be told and it will mpfect your business. Give an awesome session and it's reviewed - woooohooooooooo $$$$ in the bank BUT all your sessions will have to be awesome mpter that LOL.

In Closing - when it comes to Judgement - Let he without sin cast the first stone. I don't judge people in general on any of their actions. Every person always feels justified in their actions and goings on and that's cool with me - I simply expect the same in return.

My response is not as intellectual as the other posts - that's cool - I'm just me. Cheers!!! NN xoxox

 

[Tysine]

Pause ... and think ...

I have had to pause and think very carefully about how I reply to the intellectualisations of blackmax - he of the impressive reputation.

I didn't think it was fair of ozozoz to offer a review that really didn't give a true indication of what services someone would receive when they saw you for the first time.

At least potential customers now know what to expect before they see you. I thinks that's only fair.

Rather than to get into the validity of my comments - for the moment I will just say this HEY THIS IS WHAT I EXPERIENCED WHEN I WENT TO SEE TAMARA!!! YOU MAY NOT!!!

If you did not read my post or were unable to understand it I can surely not be held accountable. But i will restate it for those that just did not get it:

Pleasantries exchanged and into the shower. As I prepared I asked Tamara what she felt uncomfortable with and was told no DATY, no kissing on the lips, no greek, no bbbj. No problem. ...[then I go on to say]... My only concern in the entire booking was that perhaps Tamara wasn’t quite with me on an emotional/mental plane. But in this instance I have no problems with her absence – if that was the case.

Note my comments with this: "NO PROBLEM" and "IN THIS INSTANCE I HAVE NO PROBLEMS WITH HER ABSENCE"! Now I don't know what language I should have written them in, but this quite clearly (in my opinion) means I HAVE NO PROBLEM with these issues. Ipso facto if these are important to you YOU MAY HAVE A PROBLEM with these issues.

Now dealing with those issues being discussed on this forum:

1) My posts are, have been, and will always be a TRUE reflection of what I experienced in MY visit.

Blackmax your manners, ability to develop rapport, personality, looks, dick size, charm, lips, finger shape, calf shape, observational skills, listening skills, arse, capacity for empathy, empathy demonstrated, motivation, respect, eye colour, pheromones or whatever that intangible factor is that helps men and women connect may not exactly be the same as mine so perhaps you do not always get exactly the same service as me.

But please DON'T EVER IMPLY THAT I LIED OR MISLED ANYONE EVER IN A WL REVIEW. It is offensive and may mpfect my standing in this online community (Jayvee your defamation services please). Sychophantic public relations for wls is not my style, it is absolutely contrary to what I do what I stand for and what I accept in others.

As is a macho bullshit disregard for other people (or the characters they guise themselves in whichever the case may be: NLB & Carly) including wls.

2) My motivation for posting reviews is not advertising for the wl. Let me say that again. I do not advertise wls. One more time IT IS NOT ADVERTISING FOR THE WL.

I post to share MY experiences. MY EXPERIENCES. MY EXPERIENCES.

Now, I write in a certain style. I like to share everything with the mp.net. Reviewom before I arrive until the time I leave. Including the sights, the smells, the tastes, my thoughts and the action. This is my style for posting reviews.

My motivation is that it gives me a kick out of knowing I can write something outside of my professional duties that others (also involved in a clandestine activity - or not) may or may not enjoy.

I love trying to make Brooke, NLB, Carly et.al. think about Signs, Symbols, Imaginary (thanks Jacques Lacan) or How Culture Conditions the Colours We See (according to Eco). So my motivation is in essence extremely selfish and extremely personal.

Unlike Elaine who fell for the local school boy because his video reviews exactly mirrored hers, I do not seek to please others nor am I validated when someone else shares my experience. I know what happens in my field of vision and I comment on what I see in my reality and it may also match yours - or not. WHO CARES?

3. Why oh why did I not go and see Carly again before she left? I am humbled and very appreciative of your support.

4. Finally, before I have to hastily retreat ... NoLogoBoy - tsk tsk tsk.

Oh ye of little faith! What have you done to me? Siding with Can do Cam - and now Blackmax?

I didn't like the nipple attention of Yummie - in fact she left a bad taste in my mouth in general (boom! boom!). When you wrote about your experiences were you writing to tell me to go see her because I will get what I wanted Reviewom her visit? Or were you telling me to go because you got what you wanted Reviewom YOUR visit? Or were you telling the world for your own personal reasons?

I need you to explain to me how you can be "more in agreement with blackmax" and his perception that I lied or deliberately/inadvertantly misled the chatting public on what service I GOT Reviewom Tamara and how what i said can be interpreted as meaning this is the service EVERYONE WILL GET when they visit Tamara.

Of course you do not need to explain your motivation in making the statement. I was just stunned when I read you felt that Blackmax is right in demanding that when we write reviews we write Reviewom the mythical objective to ensure that our subjective and very personal experiences do not interfere with the universal experiences he is demanding we present as fact for all to see.

I can understand Pauline Hanson being xenophobic but would be a little confused if Kofi Annan was. "Please Explain?"

 

[michelle]

Intellectual Stuff

About the intellectual stuff. I have been trying to rack my brain all mpternoon for a word that has more than 13 letters in it. Sorry guys I can only come up with 11 WHEELBARROW.lol Just joking, I am actually really enjoying the posts over the past week or so keep them coming.

 

[perfection]

Deep breath...

OK, in case people haven't already guessed, I was feeling combatative and restless 24 hours ago!

Poor Tamara, that's all I can say... it just happens that every month or so one thread blows out like this, don't take it to heart!

And yes I do realise that as I was the one who threw the can of petrol onto the fire, it's a bit rich to commiserate with her. Hey, I contradict myself? Very well, I contradict myself. I am immense, I contain multitudes. But that's enough about gangbangs.

Naughty Nikki, at first I thought you were attacking me. Thank goodness for slow connection times. It meant that my reply was delayed till now. It's cool. I agree with more or less everything you wrote.

Not sure BTW if I came across as pissed off about 'your mileage may vary'. If so, I'll clarify. If anyone has been, on the whole, on the lucky side of that equation, it is moi. I have received wonderful service Reviewom many WLs in part because of my rep Reviewom the boards and forums (not so much now of course since I'm not actively chatting much). I am very very lucky and would never forget that! I have benefited Reviewom it and am hardly going to complain.

So as for your comments re rapport - fully endorse.

BTW just while you're reading, you did realise last year when I commented about a bad session that I hadn't reviewed, and some arseholes on AE said "Duh, I reckon it was Naughty Nikki" that it WAS NOT YOU that I was talking about? Simply because your post mpterwards seemed hurt and open to the possibility. For the record, I DID review you and it was a positive review, it'd still be on the old MFiA board (god knows where - Raven???)

Finally, as for intellectual levels - NN, you're definitely on a par here. I tried to break things down on a theoretical level simply because I felt I needed to explain my position in greater detail. If there's one thing I like about AB (well, there's a lot more than ONE thing but you know what I mean) it's that the level of intelligence is much higher than the 'I fisted her real good' school of writing.

I think in retrospect the thread me, OzOzOz and Brooke got into about the whole fictional persona thing (what, six, seven months ago?) was probably as high level as the board should ever get BTW! That was getting a little heavy! There's a time and a place for Lacan and it's not AusBabe (pity - it'd be particularly useful here in thsi thread...)

FOr those who don't have a clue what I'm blathering about, don't worry. Doesn't mean I'm trying to throw my intellectual johnson around. Threads on cars or computers have me staring at the screen, dumbstruck (not a good look). And if I have to spend valuable connection time downloading a thread for two minutes, just to read a contribution that consists entirely of 'Me too!!!', then I can bloody well write something like this!

Oh, that's a point too - I cannot cannot cannot get into chat, even Reviewom uni, so I'm kinda disenReviewanchised Reviewom much of the discussions in this place. Which means it's pretty much these posts and that's it.

Ozozoz - yeah. okay, I've read your latest post. I retract my previous comments on that score. But didya HAVE to compare me to Kofi???

I was just stunned
when I read you felt that Blackmax is right in demanding that when we write reviews we write Reviewom
the mythical objective to ensure that our subjective and very personal experiences do not interfere
with the universal experiences he is demanding we present as fact for all to see.

Yep. Most accurate thing posted in this thread I'd say. Full agreement.

As for Yummie - oops. What can I say? Your mileage may vary. DId she ACTUALLY want extra to touch her breasts?!!? For a RnT, that's criminal. Honestly, the quality of RnT in this town has COLLAPSED.

Oh, and crackers - the hardest word I used earlier was paradigm. And that's just eight letters.

 

[Noe H]

What have I done?

All I tried to do was post a review of my experience with Tamara, just like you ozozoz.

If I had a similar experience to you, I could have written a post simply stating "I've also seen Tamara, and totally agree with ozozoz".

If the reviews used on this site are to be of any "real" value to fellow mp.nets, surely it's best to read a variety of reviews, all Reviewom different points of view??

For example, if you received 5 replies Reviewom fellow forum members stating "right on ozozoz.... she's tops.... couldn't agree more....", how is that going to be of any real benefit to Tamara's potential customers???

Just remember, "blackmax" is an alias I have created for this website. That's the beauty of the internet.

Ozozoz, I bet that if I visited every WL off this site, not one of them would guess that I use the alias of "blackmax"......

 

[gamblingsucks]

Deep breath...

BTW just while you're reading, you did realise last year when I commented about a bad session that I hadn't reviewed, and some arseholes on AE said "Duh, I reckon it was Naughty Nikki" that it WAS NOT YOU that I was talking about? Simply because your post mpterwards seemed hurt and open to the possibility. For the record, I DID review you and it was a positive review, it'd still be on the old MFiA board (god knows where - Raven???)

Hi NLB,

Would that perhaps be the Christmas Eve 2002 review here? :wink: (Note: you need a Delphi membership to read this review)

Cheers,

Raven

PS: I haven't visited the old MFIA forum in ages either.... Memories....