The Whole Guilt Thing

[Bob G]

What exactly do most of us feel guilty about? Is it that we are cheating on our significat other, or sometimes that we feel concerned that a young lady is not that much older than our daughters? I don't know if that makes sense but I am vexed by this very often. I like and respect wl's but I don't want my daughter to become one and I never want to be part of a problem for someone young, rather than a part of the cure.

Then again I hate the idea of ANY man touching my babies EVER and lets face it, its going to happen. Hell, the kids start younger and younger these days. To quote a movie, I will tell the first boyReviewiend "If anything happens to my girl, I have a 45 and a shovel, I doubt anyone would miss you"

I figure my girls can marry at 35 and stay a virgin until they are forty, that would satisfy me, hell I would be 72 years old by then and oblivious.

Do other men suffer this complete hypocracy, or is it just me? Oh my God, am I a latent homosexual, let's face it, I am discussing my nurturing, paternal/maternal/emotional side here........again.

 

[Cutie001]

LOL jv!

Hypocrisy is not just the preserve of the mp.net! most of us suffer Reviewom it Reviewom time to time.............

I know my fav sayings are "I respect u ladies BUT" and we all know what that means! and managers in brothels who say similarly 'I respect u girls but i could never do what u do" etc etc.

That's probably why my closest Reviewiends are wls - only they know what it is that u go through. nothing needs to be explained.

if it makes u feel any better babe, when we work it is just that - work. We do have other incarnations as well, so any thoughts people have about us are really justviews about an illusion we project, they are not actually about us as the real people we are.

I saw a less than glowing review on a web site once about me and my partner said it all - it's not even about you, just who he thinks you are, why are u upset??? Very wise words indeed!

 

[Dina W]

Guilt and other oddities...

Hey Javee

The guilt complex is something that I'm certain all guys who visit WL's feel at some point. Whether we admit it currently or not, the bottom reality is that this industry, the practice of seeing a WL and working within the industry itself, is seen in the wider public eye as lacking in moral fortitude. The more complex your situation - the greater degree of perversion (thus the guy who is cheating is "the scum of the earth" - while the others are just "desperate losers") - please read that as other people's ideas not mine.

Why is this like this? Well I think it's this way because 50% of the population are female and this is how they see the whole sex industry and the participants who keep it going. It means that we are never in a position to say "Hey I visit working ladies and I'm damn proud of it". You'll never see the support badges being worn, or the bumper sticker on the back of car advocating for the WL. As Carly has said - "I repect you honey, but...." - the end of this sentence has to be: "I'll deny all knowledge of your existence if I'm ever pressed.

For me the whole guilt thing comes and goes. I have days where I feel that my visits to the lovely ladies of the dark side are a god send. I have other days when I love my partner and wonder how bad of a fuck up I really am. I mean let's face it - it's the one secret that will destroy what you have if it ever gets out. Thankfully I've moved beyond the desire to tell her - I did have that notion in my head once. Thank christ I saw the light and came to my senses. In all though - I generally feel good about my visits and the ladies I see. I think this is mainly because the girls themselves add a component to the whole equation that makes the whole mpfair ok. I feel good about myself mpter I see a girl. I treat my family better and my whole outlook on life is different. I recall reading a book once about the inuit eskimo's called "On Top of the World". I'd like to leave this posting with a quote Reviewom it:

"Id rather lend my wife to a Reviewiend than my knife. When I lend my knife it is usually returned blunted and chipped and often worthless. My I lend my wife, she is returned with rosey cheeks and a sense of mischief that only adds to our relationship."

Peace
Narsisist

 

[misstorwai]

Hey Nars

I have to say that when i saw the SBS doco recently and the way clients were portrayed in it, it did pull me up a bit short.

I get very Reviewsutrated by the engative image our industry has and how little the skills a successful wl has (communication, making people feel good, technical skills in bed, organisational skills to run a small business unaided all while needing to keep a strong sense of self so as to deal with the double lives wls lead and also the ability to leave work at work and not let this unusual occupaiton take over yr sense of self) are recognised (yes clients are guilty of not recognising ourskills too Reviewom time to time.

Having said all this, Ididn;t recognise the genral sense of hopelessnbess and loneliness, you know, the"quiet dispair" thing the guys in the doco had. Sure u do meet clients like that but u do meet lots of normal ones too!

It was interesting to see it Reviewom the client's perspective and relaise they too get Reviewustrated at how they are percieved.

I wonder if the rates of occupational violence (of all kinds and relatively speaking across the industry here, eg, including street ladies who bear the brunt of it), the disrepsect some clients have which u can see on the net eg "I really jammed her up the a***, c*** comments etc) tho not on this site thank goodness is a reflection of (some and albeit a small number) guys inadvrtantly taking their feelings out on wls??

 

[iloveuchriscolfer]

unsure

This was all way too heavy and probably didn't need to be said.

Carly, my basic points are -

1. I agree with most things you say.
2. I don't agree with the "normal"" clients but because there is no normal. The businessman who runs past you on his mobile on his way to close a million dollar deal has some shit plaguing his life. The clients you had, ACTED normal. I ACT normal when with a wl.
3. Yes, I agree, it is "work" for you, BUT there are anomolies. You feel you like wl's because they understand you. I agree, but only the wl's who are similar to you, not all people are motivated the same way. Some people are naive, some are reckless, some are very balanced. You would relate well to similar people. Similarly I can relate to "mp.nets" like me, but not ALL mp.nets....NO WAY!

This thread was initially a bit of a tongue in cheek thing with the whole "my baby girls" stuff that we men worry about. There is an element of truth to it. When you said the "but" piece I know what you are saying, BUT I would focus on the first bit, "I like most wls" etc. I have no problem with Politicians per se, but I couldn't kiss the babies and eat the shit. I have no problem with slaughter house workers BUT I couldn't do it.

I would never cart blanche say I love all wl's, what I will say is that the few I have really chosen to know, I have considered good Reviewiends and I care for them. So I suffer guilt on more Reviewonts then just the fact I am cheating on my wife.

As always Carly, you raised some interesting points.

 

[SLA]

my turn !

Well in my early days of seeing W/Ls I must admit to feeling guilty, but not because I was cheating or being unfaithful as it was single. I felt guilty as a consequence of society's perceptions, narrow minded, stereo-typed and hypocritical views towards women who worked in the industry.

It didn't take long for me to realise that my primary reason for seeing W/Ls was to satisfy a quite normal human need that wasn't being met, that of being intimate and having and enjoying the comfort of physical contact with a woman rather than sheer sex for sex sake !

Please excuse what I'm about to say next as appearing like I'm placing blame but there is no better way I can describe it. I believe my resultant reliance on W/Ls to help me fulfil my needs gratification is a direct by-product of many womens societal prejudices that place me in this situation. I have tried everything and nothing over the years to try and find a lady who will entertain the thought of a relationship with me. It does seem that if you don't have some reasonable physical characteristics that can initially captivate a woman's attention, you have no hope of them hanging around to find out your other good qualities. It is pretty sad when your counsellor confirms and acknowledges that what you have done so far is great but sometimes it's just up to fate !

Rest assured that if I'm ever lucky enough to find that elusive woman that will give me the time of day for a relationship I will stop seeing W/Ls then and there ! Until that day happens ( me thinks never on my current track record ) the only guilt I feel is one related to fact that I'm spending time with a W/L who in many cases has her own relationship outside of her work with a partner and sometimes it just feels I'm committing the most serious act of adultery out ! I take no pleasure in knowing that I'm playing in someone elses sandpit.

All I long for is something that appears so normal and natural for everyone else around me, I just need to love and feel loved ! I'm not that fussy but I can't stop others being that away. We weren't created to live out lives in isolation or in solitude.

 

[A person you dont know]

Royce

I have always, and I mean ALWAYS enjoyed your posts and I honestly have a massive regard for your opinion. I think you are a very reasonable and logical fella who constructs his thoughts and choses his words carefully. Now, I am going to say something here that may or may not be relevant because I don't know you, save for this forum. I don't want to offend you, if I do I hope you can look past it and still be forum mates.

Women, much like men, are attracted to "something" initially that is obvious. However, we, as in, men, are probably worse. I have shown my photo of my wife to Grace, Kim, Cherry, Aimee, probably Louisa (can't remember) and they always comment on how pretty my wife is. So, I think the attraction thing is only normal however desperation or needy people are, well, it is not attractive. Now, as I said, I respect you and I meant that. I also said that I have yet to meet you, so, only take this as an observation Reviewom a forum.

I don't believe that there is someone for everybody, I don't believe in instant love and burning/yearning desire that lasts forever. This is not an American movie. In real life, we still make her sleep in the wet spot and the passion dies mpter a few years and kids. The love is still there but the lust has diminished. We still have a happy marriage, but the happiness is a familiarity/comfort rather than a burning passion ten years later. My God, everything, even Elle McPherson would get to be old ground mpter ten years, as would Brad Pitt. The deeper love thing is what lasts the longest, a caring and a Reviewiendship and family basically.

You seem to have a type of madonna/whore thing going on there, where you put women on pedestals and others you hold anger toward. I think you have become lonely and Reviewustrated and unfortunately it usually comes accross. I will bet you one thing, every fella will totally agree with what I am about to say. It is when you just get engaged or you just hook up with a fantastic looking girl as a girlReviewiend and then, at that moment, women come out of the wood work. I don't know why but I always thought it was perhaps because you were not interested that they found it appealing?

Anyway, perhaps a dating agency or something, I don't know, I always had a lot of girlReviewiends and got engaged and married fairly young. I looked okay when I was young but I wasn't a stunner. I probably had a good physique, but man, I was not a stunner, pretty bloody average. No George Clooney genes here mate.

I hope you find what you are looking for but I would be careful to not build it out of proportion, otherwise when you find her, you will be so grateful, she won't respect you, cause you can't respect someone whose kissing your ass. A quote Reviewom Ferris Bullers Day Off. Just a throw away line. No, seriously mate, maybe you just try too hard or maybe you don't putyourself in the right situation. I do know one thing. If I were single and wanted a girl, I would be out, not in here but out and about where they congregate. The Casino, the Vic, anywhere.

Hope I didn't say anything awful, I didn't mean to. Finally, I would say that 70% of wl's business comes Reviewom married men who never thought they would see a wl. None of us get married with that expectation.

You are a good man Royce but I think women don't really like snags, they like men who act like snags but I don't think they marry snags. I could be dead wrong here but I always found that women were as attracted to our masculinity as we are to their feminity, its natural. Now, once you have her, then you show her your true sensiitive side. You hold her hand as she delivers your child. You sleep in hospital for a week on a stretcher bed because you want to be with her through anything. You tell her she looks great when she is falling to bits. She simply becomes a rock of support that you depend upon and count on. That is my take on it anyway.

I love being married and have been to hell and back with my wife and would do it again in an instant. When we first met, she was attracted to me because I backed a massive dude away Reviewom her and it scared the shit out of me. Two months later we engaged, eight months later married. It just happens. Hell, I had absolutely NO desire to marry at the time, I quite liked meaningless sex interspursed with monogamy for short periods of relationship, but I met the right one, at the right time and "bang" I got married.

Hope you find what you are looking for Royce and perhaps you will quit wl's, but perhaps you won't either, you have a predisposition to them now that I never had when I married. Never say never.

 

[CHATZILLA]

WOW

Boy something has slipped into the water that everyone around here is drinking. The posts have become a whole lot more interesting over the last couple of weeks. Keep up the good work everyone.

I think you started it Narsisist with the "Why we visit WL's post?". Well done.

My 2.2c's worth.

I think we are all very complex organisms with very different emotional (often times influenced by our chemical makeup I believe) and intellectual patterns. Therefore when it comes to the more close to the bone issues like WL's and sex we all respond very differently.

Hence you end up with people like myself who can visit WL’s while happily married and sexually satisfied in my marriage just because I want the most I can out of life and sex with just one person is not the most to me. Most of my Reviewiends would be very shocked if they new about this side of my life. But then again if they were looking closely at everything else I do they would probably not be shocked. The pattern is there in everything I do.

While guilt and social, religious etc etc norms do create guilt in my life this pale’s in contrast to my ferocious appetite to experience everything I can Reviewom this short life I have.

I have noticed that fear and guilt drive a lot of peoples lives in relation to what they will and won’t try/do. For some reason these emotions are not significant to me and that has had a huge impact on my actions.

Keep up the great post everyone. Thanks Carly for the WL's perspective.

 

[Nicks]

Another cynical single!!

Hi everyone,
Well my situation is probably very similar to that of Royce. I am in my late thirties, never married, never really had a long term relationship and find it extremely hard to get into a relationship. I know that I am not the best looking guy around, I also know that it is not this that inhibits me or prevents me Reviewom having a relationship. I have to agree with you Jayvee on your take of situation, summed up very well. For myself I accept that while I feel that I am a nice guy and treat women well, there are issues with myself that I need to deal with in order that I might be able to participate in a relationship on an equal basis. The part about putting the woman on a pedestal is quite apt.
I must thank you guys for opening up so much on this forum, is great to know that others feel the same way, and probably helps us to understand better how others see us.
Anyway...I think I know how you feel Royce..hope that someone happens for you sometime. Thanks to others for your candour and the spirit of helpfulness that is evident. Good to meet a bunch of people such as yourselves.
Regards Rob

 

[Orlaigh]

Guilt ...........

Jayvee,

I must say you started this topic about your daughters and some have voiced opinions about a tv show ??

Jayvee & Narsisist & Kramer & Rob - Excellent post & replies.
To read what the Single man and the Married man views are on the Whole Guilt Thing was very interesting.

As I am a WL, I do get to meet alot of men around Australia, each has their Different story to tell. For some reason the men open up to me and talk. Talk like they have never talked before, as if they have been wanting to get this or that off their chest for some time. ( I think to myself - gee why can't you just Talk to your Wife ? ( if they are married ) ))

Our meeting is very discreet and confidential ? they say to me - Yes for sure it is. Just when or if we see each other in the street or shopping with the family you don't know me - correct. I am not like that and would never break that trust line.

Hey look some men whether married or single are just happy to sit and talk. Cup of tea or a scotch or a wine is offered and the hour or longer is like a Reviewiend has dropped around to pour their troubles out onto. Some men are purely happy to have some company. Sometimes company is better than sex - gee did I write that - I love Sex.

Married men feel Guily - is it 1. because they love their wife and are seeing a wl behind her back. 2. The Sex was great with you ( WL ) I dont get sex any more at home, not mpter my Mrs had children she is right off sex. gee sorry to hear that.

Another point of view Reviewom me ( a WL )

 

[Alpha]

Hey Rob66

Hi Rob66,

Welcome to these forums and thanks for sharing some of your thoughts with us too ! Us single guys have to stick together ( NO ! I don't mean like that ), especially people who were born in 1966 !

I wish you all the best too !

 

[will scott]

fair enough

Yes, I wondered about that because a forum is a place to air your issues, so I was thinking that you probably don't do it as a general rule. I don't really understand it mate, I am at a total loss. I had Reviewiends who just couldn't get any and I mean ANY. Whether it be sex or a girlReviewiend or a wife. They became, not desperate but impatient and, I can't think of a better word than thwarted?

Look, I don't know what attracts us to one another, girls and boys that is, I know that I always just went mpter looks and looks only. One day, a girl with those looks also took my heart and I married her. I can't put it down to anything "great" that I did, so I don't know why others have problems. As I said, I probably had a good physique when I was young but I am not great looking. I am not ugly either, just average? In other words, I am of little or no help at all, I don't get it either.

You seem like a good bloke and I think you would be very nice to a girl, maybe, for some reason, you come off more as a brother/Reviewiend? Hell, I am stabbing in the dark now.

Good luck, hope you find what you are looking for and I hope to meet you one day.

 

[Chaos 2011]

a stab in the dark is worth two in the bush !

Hey Jayvee,

Well a stab at it sometimes works wonders !

I have a few great Reviewiends who are women and yes, they will never see me being more than just a great Reviewiend or a protective brother figure.

Get this though. I went out with this really nice girl about 18 months ago ever so briefly ( dated for a month or two ) which was still the longest I've had in ages. For what ever reason she decided that I wasn't the one, but I respected that because unlike so many others before her, she actually gave me every chance to be who I am. Anyway, we still kept in contact via the odd email/sms and some months later she told me that she had met this guy who she thought was "Mr Right". Well, mpter she was with this chap for a year, he proposed to her and she was understandably over the moon. Guess who was the first person she told the news to ? I thought it would have been her mum, no it was me ! Does this explain anything !!

I wish I knew what the answer was, I really do ! I can only hope that I do find out sooner than later as I'm not getting any younger.....

Thanks for your kind wishes mate !

 

[A-choo!]

Know the feeling Royce

Mate...sounds like you and I are very similar...if I was still in Brisbane we could get together, hit the town and really scare the women off. BTW we have corresponded before...many moons ago Reviewom AE I asked for some advice and you sent an email to me, recommending a certain lady who was around Albion way. Alas I never got to meet her, just about had an appointment made and she had family turn up so stuffed that up...next thing she was retired to do other things. I am in Darwin now, decided on a change Reviewom Bris. Still hasnt done any good in the relationship stakes though..but am enjoying it here though. I think I must come across like a girls brother...cause thats how I get treated most of the time...and I guess they think that incest is bad... Ah well gotta look on the bright side of life...
I did think I was in love once...met this girl, who I wasnt really that physically attracted to, but we got on well, ended up doing quite a few things together, and just well, got to feeling that I wanted to be with her all the time, regardless of what we were doing. It actually bugged her, because I didnt care what we did, and she looked to me to make a decision as to what activity we were going to do etc. But for me I was totally satisfied to be with her...whether at a movie, having a coffee, out on the town......anything...as long as she was there with me... That has sort of stuffed up any other relationships since for me, cause I look for the same feeling. That one never came to Reviewuition either...not real sure why, she just bailed out, messed me up badly really, even though it was essentially a platonic Reviewiendship. So I do believe (maybe to my own peril) in Love, because of what I have experienced even though not returned. Part of my problem now (amongst other things) is that if I do meet a woman I wait to see if I have the right feelings for her before asking her out etc. Usually by then even if she was interested she has figured that I arent interested in her, so has moved on emotionally anyway. Could be also that I am so aReviewaid of them saying NO that I dont even bother asking, cause you preempt their reaction. So much for being Mr Nice Guy. I look back on so many missed opportunities and boot myself so hard for them...but no point really.. Maybe one day I will say the right thing at the right time...and Kerrrr Bang....
The funny thing is that when in my late teens early twenties, I just about got any girl I liked to go out with me, broke a few hearts too....Cant understand why. Wasnt any better looking back then either. Just had some confidence and wasnt aReviewaid to use it. Not sure what happened along the way...
Your right, us fellows Reviewom '66 should stick together...
Sorry for my half drunken ramblings, but sometimes it is the only time I open up and say what I really mean. Ahh can hear you know...well why dont you go out and meet some women......If only it were that easy...you know even though you might be desparate for company, it doesnt mean that you are less fussy about the type of company. Anyway hope all you ladies and chaps are having a great Reviewiday night and a nice long weekend, I am off to Kakadu for weekend tomorrow(in the morning)....One of the pleasures of living in the Territory!!
Cheers to all
Rob