Traffic Court question

[BLACKHAWK]

Brad heads off to the Ontario Court of Justice in the future, to fight the good fight of course (parking ticket), but I had a question.

Is there anything like a 'statute of limitations' (insert lawyer speak proper term) on the Province granting Brad a 'trial'? Got the ticket in 2009, challenged immediately, they notify me of the trial date 13 months later (here in 2010), and set the trial a crazy 19 months after the parking ticket was issued (it will be in 2011). Apart from saying 'parking dude made an error' (it's true, which is why I challenged), can I bring up the ridiculous 19 month wait as part of a case to drop the fine?

In case it's deemed relevant, I challenged the ticket cuz the parking Nazi really did make an error. Even took a picture as evidence. So it's just the principle of not paying for someone's mistake. Otherwise I'm fine with cities having parking laws and fines etc etc.

I know this is not an interesting thread, so to spice it up, if you cannot answer the question then just say what is the thing you really wish parking people would crack down on alot more...

Me: I wish they would fine the arse off those fuckers who stop with hazards on in no stopping zones in rush hour! Talk about self-centred!

 

[Corinne G]

I was told that after 6 months if I did not receive my notice had to call them up. You did that?.

 

[kiwi mum to one and a bun]

It use to be a valid argument but I don't believe so anymore. The arguement was it violated your right to a speedy trial based on the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. If you recall a few years ago, the courts in Ontario threw out a lot of the tickets and they lost a lot of revenue because of it. They have made changes now that even if your trial date is over 1 year, it is still valid but I would double check with a paralegal if you have easy access to one.

 

[TheMadProfessor]

Iambad: I'm told I'm not obligated to call to remind the city to send me a notice. That seems common sense too! Fuckers should not have to be reminded to be competent!

Chunky: good tip. I see the Canadian Charter of Rights, Section 11(b), ensures trial within a reasonable time as a right. Nothing Toronto does will water that down, otherwise wither the Charter.

But I wonder if I have to file a motion in advance to say my Charter rights are being violated, or whether it can be presented to the judge at trial as reason to dismiss?

Clearly I just want to make a point about both the stupidly long time to trial and that I refuse to pay even $1 for someone's error. Yep, troublemaker.

 

[ksr]

they have made it so hard to fight that i don't bother anymore.
there used to be a guy who had a website who would go and set the date for you (ie first appearance) for $10 paid online. he would aggregate them and go set the dates all at once - not sure if the service still exists.

by the time you factor the time,parking etc you are better to suck it up and pay the $30. frankly i would rather the increase my taxes than ticket everyone/everywhere/anytime

Torontonians are grumpy enough without the everyone getting tickets all the time. It contributes to a pissed off society - keep rush hour arterys open etc ok but most of what they are doing is just a revenue grab.

 

[NellyE]

Go for it Brad! The cops have now become revenue collectors for the city coffers, it's disgusting. I remember back when the cops use to have some discretion but now they ticket you and the only words out of their mouth is come to $$court$$.

 

[.:daisy:.]

Sexmaniac: it's $60. The amount is irrelevant, as if I win I'll donate $60 to legal aid or something similar. It's the principle of the matter (not paying for an error).

Jawbone: right on! It's a strike for justice in a corrupt world, or some other such motto for justifying calling bullshit.

Choice #2 for 'please crack down on this shit': fuckers who queue across intersections. Traffic hazard.

 

[Sam Da Man]

Told by a cop that did not want to give me a break on a speeding ticket.

"We used to take 10 k's off so drivers would not lose points and pay higher insurance premiums. Most drivers would promise the cop they would just pay the fine and end it at that. BUT, 90 % of drivers lied and fought off the tickets in court".

So, now the cops have a fuck you attitude towards us. Blame ourselves boys.

 

[Soggy Waffles]

Just for the record, cops don't give out speeding tickets, those are "parking enforcement officers".

WHo cares about the charter of rights? Toronto doesn't. They will do whatever they can to screw their citizens (another reason why I left that stink hole).

BTW: they make it so complicated and so difficult for you to fight the tickets that unless you're willing to spend 3x as much to fight the ticket, most just pay it. That's what they are counting on.....evil bastards.....I bet a bunch of them sat in a room one night and said "ok, how difficult can we make this"? then set about doing just that.....

 

[The Taoist]

Tboy: what's Brad missing here? Where does the 3x cost of ticket to fight ticket come from, and the 'complicated'? Brad just hauled his ugly mug into the King/John area municipal building, waited 10 mins, filed the challenge. Next year I will lob into court. No extra $$$, though a bit of time, and pretty simple. But I might be missing something and I apologize for my ignorance if so.

Butch: see your point. It's the whole crying wolf thing. Though police might have lots of independent reasons to hate us, spanning the spectrum from they are wankers to some of us really are criminals!

I'm beginning to see this whole shindig as my civic duty to challenge an incompetent bureuacracy. The Emporer has no clothes, Brad will shout!!!

 

[keani]

Brad:

So, did you drive down or take the red rocket? If you drove, it cost you $$ in gas, plus $$ for parking plus $$ to get back home again just to FILE the challenge.

Then you have to go back to fight it so you're talking $$ for gas, $$ for parking (and you're talking an all day spot then) plus $$ to get home again.

Plus how much is your time worth? Did you have to take time off work? If you're salaried it's not a big deal but if you're hourly, it would have cost you wages too.

How about if you lived in Mississauga or Scarboro or worse? Then you're talking a LOT of gas to get into the city plus at least an hour or so each way.....

So, to summarize: you get a $20.00 over limit ticket. You drive down and back, that's at least 10 bucks. Say 5.00 for parking so to file, that's 15.00. Then you do it all again the court date (and you WILL have to buy an all day parking pass because you don't know when you'll be called) so that's at least $20.00 plus the $10.00 for gas, so you're now up to $45.00. Just say at $25.00 an hour you've spent 2 to file, that's $50.00. Then the day to fight it (you'll be lucky if you're out in a couple of hours) then that's at least another $50.00 so the total now is $145.00 to fight a $20.00 parking ticket.

That's the minimum it would cost me in particular and I make an average income. Now say you're a lawyer, at a rate of $200.00 per hour billable, the total now gets up to $845.00.

So, you see? while for some, it might not be so costly to fight a simple parking ticket but for others? It can cost dearly.

BTW: I'm self employed, and I am making zilch standing in line or sitting in traffic getting to and from the court house.....

 

[aguamoose]

I prefer to send in a paralegal for traffic tickets. The biggest problem are insurance issues in regards to traffic violations and the cops are out in full force collecting money for the city and helping the insurance companies raise their rates. Parking tickets I would just pay them, not worth the time invested to fight them.

Brad stick it to them, best of luck bro, I am guessing it is not about the money but more about the principle.:great:

 

[cheetos_2000]

Well, traffic tickets are different than parking tickets. Traffic tickets do not benefit the city in the least (aren't they a different court?)...parking tickets 100% benefit the city......

here's a good article on parking tickets:

http://fightyourtickets.ca/statistics/tickets-as-a-revenue-source/page/5/

 

[13lunt]

Rayden: yep, all about the principle my friend. Sometimes we all have to say 'enough of this shit'.

Tboy: you make a good case. Brad is on two wheels, lives in the city, is salaried. No real bother. You're point is well taken. There is definitely going to be an economic dimension to fighting something as seemingly cheap and easy to fight as a parking ticket. If Brad reads you correctly, you're basically saying there is a kind of social justice issue at stake too, if some can fight cheaper and easier than others. Brad agrees. It makes me want to stick it to 'em even more, though!

 

[bluff mike]

Maybe we should be calling the new Mayor and complaining about this new form of tax collection.

 

[13lunt]

Wouldn't Dorfhead, I mean Ford, say anything to do with a car is good?
Conjecture: Ford makes it traffic-city, supposedly pleasing car obsessed folk, while aslo NOT curtailing fines etc = more $$$ coming in (= not-so-hidden tax).