I'm not a practitioner, but I hope it is ok that I post. I'm a man that loves getting massages, but am somewhat new to it and somewhat confused as to etiquette and such. I found a therapist I am comfortable with that does a great job for relaxation and muscle therapy a couple of years ago that I've been going to since then. It really has improved my health a lot. I strive to be as respectful as possible, arrive on time, and tip well, etc. I want to be the model client, and actually think I am. Even though I feel I know my therapist pretty well, or maybe because of it, I'm still still somewhat squeamish about making a therapy faux-pas that would make a therapist uncomfortable, or mark me as some sort of weirdo. She does such a really great job overall, but I have learned that each therapist just has their own way so I'm not sure if I should ask for her to hit an area she doesn't do. The only area I'd like her to hit that she doesn't is the sternum. I think I'd find it very calming. Would it be inappropriate to ask for this? I've noticed that many therapists leave the chest totally draped and never go past the shoulders, which is more or less what my therapist does. She works the glutes very well, one of the reasons I go to her. So, to sum up, is it better to just enjoy the excellent job my therapist does or would it be a good idea to try to make it slightly better by asking for something she doesn't normally do? By trying to make something better will I ruin a good thing? If she doesn't hit the chest at all, is that a clear signal she doesn't want to? The last thing I want to do is make her uncomfortable. Advice?
What requests are *appropriate*?
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What requests are *appropriate*?
It's always ok to ask for what you want, as long as it is not sexual in nature. Having your sternum worked is a perfectly reasonable request.
It's always ok to ask for what you want, as long as it is not sexual in nature. Having your sternum worked is a perfectly reasonable request.
What requests are *appropriate*?
Sternal work would be inappropriate to ask about, if the client was hoping to get their jollies out of it in some fashion. Otherwise, it would not be inappropriate.
If you have had sternal work before, then you will be aware of what the work feels like. However, not all therapists provide sternal work and some of the work can be too challenging for a new therapists or some therapists' current level of training.
I do not prvide much sternal work, unless asked or due to a particular complaint that a client is wanting to work on which may need this kind of work. Many clients don't like it, as it can be uncomfortable at times, depending on the client and the nature of the session. Therefore, I am judicious as to who I use these techniques on.
I believe that many therapists gravitate to using a general pattern for their sessions, and create the individuality of the sessions based on the client needs, requests and expectations. If you have not been communicating with the therapist up to this point, she may be using a standard framework which can be altered from session to session as you ask for more specific work.
A way to break the ice: "I was wondering if you were trained in sternal work? I know some people do and some people don't. But I have seen a therapist in the past who did, and it seemed to help me relax. What do you think?"
Please let us know how it goes.
For future reference, client posts are better directed to this section of the forums.
10/04/11: Correction for serious typo. :lipsaresealed:
Sternal work would be inappropriate to ask about, if the client was hoping to get their jollies out of it in some fashion. Otherwise, it would not be inappropriate.
If you have had sternal work before, then you will be aware of what the work feels like. However, not all therapists provide sternal work and some of the work can be too challenging for a new therapists or some therapists' current level of training.
I do not prvide much sternal work, unless asked or due to a particular complaint that a client is wanting to work on which may need this kind of work. Many clients don't like it, as it can be uncomfortable at times, depending on the client and the nature of the session. Therefore, I am judicious as to who I use these techniques on.
I believe that many therapists gravitate to using a general pattern for their sessions, and create the individuality of the sessions based on the client needs, requests and expectations. If you have not been communicating with the therapist up to this point, she may be using a standard framework which can be altered from session to session as you ask for more specific work.
A way to break the ice: "I was wondering if you were trained in sternal work? I know some people do and some people don't. But I have seen a therapist in the past who did, and it seemed to help me relax. What do you think?"
Please let us know how it goes.
For future reference, client posts are better directed to this section of the forums.
10/04/11: Correction for serious typo. :lipsaresealed:
What requests are *appropriate*?
Might I inquire as to whether you've had sternal work before & what you hope to accomplish with it? Keep in mind that the entire ribcage area is affected by many issues - and if you're looking for work which might free up the breathing/asthma conditions, etc. then it may be very helpful for this. Beyond that if you're dealing with tension/tightness through the chest you may also want to look into exercises that will open up the ribcage for you as well.
Might I inquire as to whether you've had sternal work before & what you hope to accomplish with it? Keep in mind that the entire ribcage area is affected by many issues - and if you're looking for work which might free up the breathing/asthma conditions, etc. then it may be very helpful for this. Beyond that if you're dealing with tension/tightness through the chest you may also want to look into exercises that will open up the ribcage for you as well.
What requests are *appropriate*?
Oops, I missed that section. I understand I should have posted there, but I do appreciate the suggestions, and I'll give some brief answer so as not to leave this one hanging.
No, I've not had "sternal work" as you are describing it here. I picked up the term by reading this forum, but merely assumed it meant any sort of treatment of the sternum. So I'm not sure I want sternal work as I see it is described here or not.
What prompted my question is that my therapist is out on vacation so I just went to someone else I knew of in the area that is well-respected, and during the massage this therapist worked the upper pecs fairly briefly and it was just very soothing. Then she finished by merely rubbing lightly lengthwise along the sternum. I guess it is a little embarrassing to say, but this light work on the chest was so soothing it was nearly hypnotic. I just exhaled more or less involuntarily in deep relaxation and I felt almost as if my eyes could have rolled back in my head. I just felt so peaceful it was very surprising, yet wonderful. Nothing erotic I can assure you, and I don't seek anything of the sort from therapeutic massage. Maybe it was just because it was a new sensation. I don't know.
Though I'm not a therapist I'm a keen observer, and it seems to me I'm learning that there are three components to massage. 1) The firmer muscle work of what is often called deep tissue massage; 2) the relaxation brought about by the friction on the skin of what is often called relaxation or maybe Swedish massage; and 3) touch therapy. I think a massage can incorporate all three in varying degrees, and usually does. It seems to me now possibly I experienced more of 3 than I normally do perhaps, or maybe I can receive more of it through the chest (since I think my normal therapist has a nice touch.) That's a guess. Not sure if that sounds overly cosmic or mystical to folks here, but there you go.
I'll try some form of the respectful request of my normal therapist next time I go. I can post my experience if you wish, but I apologize for posting in the wrong section.
BTW, last night I read some of posts in other threads where male therapists seemed to be miffed that men wouldn't have a male therapist (the rudeness is indefensible of course.) Though as an absolute I'd agree this is very short sighted, but it all depends on what you need from the massage. I find that as time goes on, and life's stresses add up, 2 and 3 are becoming increasingly important to me on an average day. And when it comes to 3, there isn't any way a man can match a woman's touch. It just isn't possible. I wonder if some of the male therapists who expressed themselves on this gender issue might not have fully appreciated the interplay of these aspects.
Oops, I missed that section. I understand I should have posted there, but I do appreciate the suggestions, and I'll give some brief answer so as not to leave this one hanging.
No, I've not had "sternal work" as you are describing it here. I picked up the term by reading this forum, but merely assumed it meant any sort of treatment of the sternum. So I'm not sure I want sternal work as I see it is described here or not.
What prompted my question is that my therapist is out on vacation so I just went to someone else I knew of in the area that is well-respected, and during the massage this therapist worked the upper pecs fairly briefly and it was just very soothing. Then she finished by merely rubbing lightly lengthwise along the sternum. I guess it is a little embarrassing to say, but this light work on the chest was so soothing it was nearly hypnotic. I just exhaled more or less involuntarily in deep relaxation and I felt almost as if my eyes could have rolled back in my head. I just felt so peaceful it was very surprising, yet wonderful. Nothing erotic I can assure you, and I don't seek anything of the sort from therapeutic massage. Maybe it was just because it was a new sensation. I don't know.
Though I'm not a therapist I'm a keen observer, and it seems to me I'm learning that there are three components to massage. 1) The firmer muscle work of what is often called deep tissue massage; 2) the relaxation brought about by the friction on the skin of what is often called relaxation or maybe Swedish massage; and 3) touch therapy. I think a massage can incorporate all three in varying degrees, and usually does. It seems to me now possibly I experienced more of 3 than I normally do perhaps, or maybe I can receive more of it through the chest (since I think my normal therapist has a nice touch.) That's a guess. Not sure if that sounds overly cosmic or mystical to folks here, but there you go.
I'll try some form of the respectful request of my normal therapist next time I go. I can post my experience if you wish, but I apologize for posting in the wrong section.
BTW, last night I read some of posts in other threads where male therapists seemed to be miffed that men wouldn't have a male therapist (the rudeness is indefensible of course.) Though as an absolute I'd agree this is very short sighted, but it all depends on what you need from the massage. I find that as time goes on, and life's stresses add up, 2 and 3 are becoming increasingly important to me on an average day. And when it comes to 3, there isn't any way a man can match a woman's touch. It just isn't possible. I wonder if some of the male therapists who expressed themselves on this gender issue might not have fully appreciated the interplay of these aspects.
Roberto R
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- Sep 20, 2009
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What requests are *appropriate*?
Thank you for your response. Since you have had a therapist provide you with work you liked, all you need to do is approach your therapist with the information - remembering to leave the door open for the possibility that she will not be able to fill that request.
You also have the option of utilizing two therapists. You don't have to only see one.
I have some clients who move between myself and another therapist, depending on the work they need.
jbo5 said:
Thank you for your response. Since you have had a therapist provide you with work you liked, all you need to do is approach your therapist with the information - remembering to leave the door open for the possibility that she will not be able to fill that request.
You also have the option of utilizing two therapists. You don't have to only see one.
I have some clients who move between myself and another therapist, depending on the work they need.
What requests are *appropriate*?
For the last 4 years or so when I first started getting massages until now, my main concern was glutes because I work a desk job and 90% of the time I just wanted muscle work on those areas for relief. So up until now I've mainly scored a massage based on the glute work for that reason, and also because many therapists don't seem to work the glutes much. Or maybe its because they hold that in reserve for return clients when they see that's what you want. In any case my main therapists glute massages seemed to get better and better over the time I've been a client, and she's a particularly good as deep muscle work too. To me up until now, good glute massage = good massage, and less than great glute massage = less than great massage.
But in the last year I've learned the hard way that no amount of muscle therapy or working out (I'm quite fit) can counteract what happens from sitting too long every day. I've learned that you can't climb out of the hole you dug for yourself all day no matter what you do. I turned fifty recently and my body can't take what I now know is abuse anymore. In the last year I found I increasingly had to visit a chiropractor, and it got to the point where I'd have to go every 3 weeks. I asked my chiro why he thought I needed the frequent adjustments that I never needed before, and he said the reason was that I just sit too much. He said to get up and stretch every thirty minutes. But after trying to do this I suddenly had an epiphany and decided this was merely a half-way measure, and I went one better and got a standing workstation and completely remade my work and home habits, which I came to see were simply killing my back. I sit to relax my back now instead of standing to stretch. I'm frequently moving and it works for me since I'm a naturally restless person, but when sitting and concentrating post-epiphany I realized that I tend to turn into a pretzel and stop breathing. Now I rotate between a handful of positions throughout the day, some of which are relaxing back stretches that seem natural. Now I have the normal healthy back I always had before, and I'm pain-free like I haven't been in a year. Woot!
So now I don't need massages anymore! Just joking. Of course I do. The muscle work is still beneficial, and, as I've said, for me as for many if not most, getting massages was never completely about the muscle work anyway. In fact, I think much of the intramural argument over what a therapist should or shouldn't do during therapeutic massage comes down to the fact that many therapists (and clients) just do not grasp that fact. In arguments between therapists over draping, technique, the significance (or lack thereof) of erections, etc. I often think this is the crux of the matter. Those who see the muscle work as the primary function of massage, or are uncomfortable with the fact that aspects of massage may indeed go beyond the muscle work are going to have issues with those who do grasp this. This one was a somewhat rambling comment, but I think it may be helpful to someone sometime and it adds context for the next one below which relates my massage experience to my original since I opened this thread.
For the last 4 years or so when I first started getting massages until now, my main concern was glutes because I work a desk job and 90% of the time I just wanted muscle work on those areas for relief. So up until now I've mainly scored a massage based on the glute work for that reason, and also because many therapists don't seem to work the glutes much. Or maybe its because they hold that in reserve for return clients when they see that's what you want. In any case my main therapists glute massages seemed to get better and better over the time I've been a client, and she's a particularly good as deep muscle work too. To me up until now, good glute massage = good massage, and less than great glute massage = less than great massage.
But in the last year I've learned the hard way that no amount of muscle therapy or working out (I'm quite fit) can counteract what happens from sitting too long every day. I've learned that you can't climb out of the hole you dug for yourself all day no matter what you do. I turned fifty recently and my body can't take what I now know is abuse anymore. In the last year I found I increasingly had to visit a chiropractor, and it got to the point where I'd have to go every 3 weeks. I asked my chiro why he thought I needed the frequent adjustments that I never needed before, and he said the reason was that I just sit too much. He said to get up and stretch every thirty minutes. But after trying to do this I suddenly had an epiphany and decided this was merely a half-way measure, and I went one better and got a standing workstation and completely remade my work and home habits, which I came to see were simply killing my back. I sit to relax my back now instead of standing to stretch. I'm frequently moving and it works for me since I'm a naturally restless person, but when sitting and concentrating post-epiphany I realized that I tend to turn into a pretzel and stop breathing. Now I rotate between a handful of positions throughout the day, some of which are relaxing back stretches that seem natural. Now I have the normal healthy back I always had before, and I'm pain-free like I haven't been in a year. Woot!
So now I don't need massages anymore! Just joking. Of course I do. The muscle work is still beneficial, and, as I've said, for me as for many if not most, getting massages was never completely about the muscle work anyway. In fact, I think much of the intramural argument over what a therapist should or shouldn't do during therapeutic massage comes down to the fact that many therapists (and clients) just do not grasp that fact. In arguments between therapists over draping, technique, the significance (or lack thereof) of erections, etc. I often think this is the crux of the matter. Those who see the muscle work as the primary function of massage, or are uncomfortable with the fact that aspects of massage may indeed go beyond the muscle work are going to have issues with those who do grasp this. This one was a somewhat rambling comment, but I think it may be helpful to someone sometime and it adds context for the next one below which relates my massage experience to my original since I opened this thread.
What requests are *appropriate*?
pueppi: I'm coming to the same conclusion about possibly needing more than one therapist. For example, just in the last week I've decided I need two mechanics, one for stuff I imagine requires complex diagnostics because I recently stumbled across one who seems particularly interested and challenged by those issues, and my normal one for everything else. Maybe it is the same with massage therapists.
As I was relating earlier, when I visited the new therapist she lightly rubbed my sternum that was a new experience for me, and it just feel really good. Something I felt even two days later. Perhaps endorphins, but I don't know. It reminded me of an endorphin rush in the days following a run after a long break back back when I used to run. But a funny thing happened just after my normal massage therapist returned from vacation. I had a psoas spasm (diagnosed by my chiropractor) after a workout, um . . . miscalculation. I hadn't yet asked her about the chest or abs. The reason I was squeamish about doing it is that she's the first regular therapist I've ever had, and I wasn't some veteran who knew the normal practice. Additionally, I couldn't help but think that since I'd been seeing her for several years and she never did or offered maybe that was because she wasn't comfortable with it and it would make her uncomfortable to ask. Anyway, when I hobbled in and told her what happened and what the chiropractor said (and he did a "psoas release" via the abdomen) she took the towel down to my waist and worked my abs really well. It felt great. It took a week and a half of psoas stretches at home to make the pain go away, but I saw she knew how to do abs. The next time (only a few days later still recovering) she did the same thing again, and I asked if she'd do the chest too and she did. It felt fabulous and the same thing occurred as with the other therapist: two or three days of feel-good endorphins or whatever it is that is at once relaxing and energizing at the same time. I have no idea if anyone else experiences this, and I have no idea if it is endorphins (if so it probably won't last since one adjusts to it), or has anything to do with chi, chakra, or whatever, but damn it feels good. If it is an endorphin thing then the rush will cease after awhile, but I'd still think that meant something good healthy and good about the activity nonetheless.
But in subsequent visits it seems to me that she isn't as willing to do abdominals and/or chest just because I like it as she is if I'm hurt or have some specific problem that requires it. I sense a reluctance now that I'm well. The last thing I'd want to do is make her feel uncomfortable, and yet I definitely want to have chest/abs massaged now that I've experienced this for the reasons I've given. In my analysis, she is a massage therapist that isn't into getting massages herself, and she really doesn't get that it is important to me now. The last thing I want to do is make her uncomfortable, and I have have complete respect for her. When you get to a certain age and place all younger women seem like your daughter. But we'll see how it goes. She unusually talent with deep muscle work in my opinion.
Part of trying to figure out how to handle this involves seeing how other therapists work, and in that spirit and on the subject of chest/abs massage I scheduled an appointment yesterday with a more distant massage establishment near Los Angeles (I live in Orange county) I saw in an advertisement recently because it mentioned "hot oil", and also because I saw that in the rubmaps.com listing the perverts--I mean guys--were complaining that it was a "legit" business and didn't provide "extras". LOL. I've never visited a dodgy establishment that does anything illicit. But I wanted to experience a hot oil massage and maybe less squeamishness about draping if possible. Since those that should know declared it "legit" it sounded like the ticket and I made an appointment for Sat morning. So I went there and the only draping they used was a tiny towel for minimal coverage of the butt-crack and genitals after flip. The rooms were warm for the purpose and the table was heated, and it was comfortable even though I get cold easily. A pretty good massage. I wasn't sure if she'd do chest/abs, and when she seemed done I asked if she could do "my front" or some such language indicating my trunk too and she said she could and I said I'd pay for whatever extra time it took. So I could see she wasn't going to do that originally, but she didn't mind at all doing it either.
So she did the oil massage on my chest and abs and I have to say it was an other-worldly experience. She just rubbed me all over my trunk with smooth gliding strokes, and it was about at great as I could ever imagine. It was obvious she had no discomfort at all in doing it. Sometimes abs, sometimes sternum, sometimes pecs or ribs and often all of them in long gliding strokes. It was amazing. The surprising thing was that she did not avoid my nipples. I assumed all therapists would, and mine are quite sensitive so I thought I'd never like that in any case if a therapist (or anyone other than a wife or girlfriend) ever did it, but it took me awhile to even realize it. She wasn't massaging my nipples--she was ignoring them and massaging my chest as if I had none. I don't know if local ordinances permit this in this city or not, or if her training was different or not, but the mantra of "avoid the nipples" was certainly not adhered to and to my amazement it was truly great because of the total coverage on the trunk. I thanked her profusely for extending the massage and said how relaxing it was, and afterwards tipped her over 50% of the cost. I'll definitely go back and ask for her. Since I'm no longer having muscle issues, I just wanted a relaxation massage and to see what other therapists did as far as the chest. What a massage it was. During the strokes over my chest and sternum felt like she was touching my soul. I'm sure there will be those who will say this was a "sensual massage" and something improper was done, but my therapist was totally professional and I totally respectful, and I talked freely with both her and the owner at the front desk afterwards.
It takes all kinds I guess. Here is a woman who felt violated in some way by a chest massage by another woman, after consenting to it! http://www.yelp.com/biz/f-joseph-smith-massage-therapy-mill-valley Can you believe it?
"She then took her greasy oiled up hands and began to rub my chest, nipples, and stomach in a stroking motion." Her greasy oiled-up hands? The horror! Why would anyone this touchy ever go get a full-body massage in the first place?
pueppi: I'm coming to the same conclusion about possibly needing more than one therapist. For example, just in the last week I've decided I need two mechanics, one for stuff I imagine requires complex diagnostics because I recently stumbled across one who seems particularly interested and challenged by those issues, and my normal one for everything else. Maybe it is the same with massage therapists.
As I was relating earlier, when I visited the new therapist she lightly rubbed my sternum that was a new experience for me, and it just feel really good. Something I felt even two days later. Perhaps endorphins, but I don't know. It reminded me of an endorphin rush in the days following a run after a long break back back when I used to run. But a funny thing happened just after my normal massage therapist returned from vacation. I had a psoas spasm (diagnosed by my chiropractor) after a workout, um . . . miscalculation. I hadn't yet asked her about the chest or abs. The reason I was squeamish about doing it is that she's the first regular therapist I've ever had, and I wasn't some veteran who knew the normal practice. Additionally, I couldn't help but think that since I'd been seeing her for several years and she never did or offered maybe that was because she wasn't comfortable with it and it would make her uncomfortable to ask. Anyway, when I hobbled in and told her what happened and what the chiropractor said (and he did a "psoas release" via the abdomen) she took the towel down to my waist and worked my abs really well. It felt great. It took a week and a half of psoas stretches at home to make the pain go away, but I saw she knew how to do abs. The next time (only a few days later still recovering) she did the same thing again, and I asked if she'd do the chest too and she did. It felt fabulous and the same thing occurred as with the other therapist: two or three days of feel-good endorphins or whatever it is that is at once relaxing and energizing at the same time. I have no idea if anyone else experiences this, and I have no idea if it is endorphins (if so it probably won't last since one adjusts to it), or has anything to do with chi, chakra, or whatever, but damn it feels good. If it is an endorphin thing then the rush will cease after awhile, but I'd still think that meant something good healthy and good about the activity nonetheless.
But in subsequent visits it seems to me that she isn't as willing to do abdominals and/or chest just because I like it as she is if I'm hurt or have some specific problem that requires it. I sense a reluctance now that I'm well. The last thing I'd want to do is make her feel uncomfortable, and yet I definitely want to have chest/abs massaged now that I've experienced this for the reasons I've given. In my analysis, she is a massage therapist that isn't into getting massages herself, and she really doesn't get that it is important to me now. The last thing I want to do is make her uncomfortable, and I have have complete respect for her. When you get to a certain age and place all younger women seem like your daughter. But we'll see how it goes. She unusually talent with deep muscle work in my opinion.
Part of trying to figure out how to handle this involves seeing how other therapists work, and in that spirit and on the subject of chest/abs massage I scheduled an appointment yesterday with a more distant massage establishment near Los Angeles (I live in Orange county) I saw in an advertisement recently because it mentioned "hot oil", and also because I saw that in the rubmaps.com listing the perverts--I mean guys--were complaining that it was a "legit" business and didn't provide "extras". LOL. I've never visited a dodgy establishment that does anything illicit. But I wanted to experience a hot oil massage and maybe less squeamishness about draping if possible. Since those that should know declared it "legit" it sounded like the ticket and I made an appointment for Sat morning. So I went there and the only draping they used was a tiny towel for minimal coverage of the butt-crack and genitals after flip. The rooms were warm for the purpose and the table was heated, and it was comfortable even though I get cold easily. A pretty good massage. I wasn't sure if she'd do chest/abs, and when she seemed done I asked if she could do "my front" or some such language indicating my trunk too and she said she could and I said I'd pay for whatever extra time it took. So I could see she wasn't going to do that originally, but she didn't mind at all doing it either.
So she did the oil massage on my chest and abs and I have to say it was an other-worldly experience. She just rubbed me all over my trunk with smooth gliding strokes, and it was about at great as I could ever imagine. It was obvious she had no discomfort at all in doing it. Sometimes abs, sometimes sternum, sometimes pecs or ribs and often all of them in long gliding strokes. It was amazing. The surprising thing was that she did not avoid my nipples. I assumed all therapists would, and mine are quite sensitive so I thought I'd never like that in any case if a therapist (or anyone other than a wife or girlfriend) ever did it, but it took me awhile to even realize it. She wasn't massaging my nipples--she was ignoring them and massaging my chest as if I had none. I don't know if local ordinances permit this in this city or not, or if her training was different or not, but the mantra of "avoid the nipples" was certainly not adhered to and to my amazement it was truly great because of the total coverage on the trunk. I thanked her profusely for extending the massage and said how relaxing it was, and afterwards tipped her over 50% of the cost. I'll definitely go back and ask for her. Since I'm no longer having muscle issues, I just wanted a relaxation massage and to see what other therapists did as far as the chest. What a massage it was. During the strokes over my chest and sternum felt like she was touching my soul. I'm sure there will be those who will say this was a "sensual massage" and something improper was done, but my therapist was totally professional and I totally respectful, and I talked freely with both her and the owner at the front desk afterwards.
It takes all kinds I guess. Here is a woman who felt violated in some way by a chest massage by another woman, after consenting to it! http://www.yelp.com/biz/f-joseph-smith-massage-therapy-mill-valley Can you believe it?
"She then took her greasy oiled up hands and began to rub my chest, nipples, and stomach in a stroking motion." Her greasy oiled-up hands? The horror! Why would anyone this touchy ever go get a full-body massage in the first place?
What requests are *appropriate*?
Hmm. Several things about your story don't add up:
You wanted to find a legitimate massage therapist who would massage your chest and abdomen. Instead of asking the MT who had already done that for you, you went to a web site that advertises and discusses sensual massage parlours.
You wanted less draping -why? This is the first time you've mentioned a desire for less than professional draping.
Instead of specifying the precise nature of your request during the intake discussion with this "legit" MT so she could plan it as part of the session, why did you lay there with "minimal coverage" on your genitals and ask for her to do "my front" and offer extra cash?
You go on and on about how this "totally professional" MT rubbed your nipples.Are you aware that rubbing nipples is not considered ethical, and is in direct violation of many massage therapy professional codes of conduct?
I half expect you to start clamoring for undraped massage next...
Hmm. Several things about your story don't add up:
You wanted to find a legitimate massage therapist who would massage your chest and abdomen. Instead of asking the MT who had already done that for you, you went to a web site that advertises and discusses sensual massage parlours.
You wanted less draping -why? This is the first time you've mentioned a desire for less than professional draping.
Instead of specifying the precise nature of your request during the intake discussion with this "legit" MT so she could plan it as part of the session, why did you lay there with "minimal coverage" on your genitals and ask for her to do "my front" and offer extra cash?
You go on and on about how this "totally professional" MT rubbed your nipples.Are you aware that rubbing nipples is not considered ethical, and is in direct violation of many massage therapy professional codes of conduct?
I half expect you to start clamoring for undraped massage next...
What requests are *appropriate*?
Well I know I posted a lot of text, but I did explain that I asked the MT who had already done that and described her response. I don't know what is professional draping, and I do desire draping --in fact wouldn't accept no draping--but you have to realize until even after my original post I'd never even had any part of my upper body uncovered in the five years or so I've been getting massages. You shouldn't be so suspicious of people. Everyone isn't a creep.
I went to the website that speaks of sensual massage because though I wanted to try a hot oil massage, I was concerned that it could be code for something illegitimate. Sorry moderator, but I confirmed that it wasn't (the pervs all said "nothing happening here, but a pretty good massage") the only way there was to do it in advance. You have no reason to insinuate what you did.
Because not all MT's do intake discussions. Of the three MTs I've seen in the last five years, only one has ever done an intake discussion. I rate health professionals on their work, not their interpersonal skills. My main MT is somewhat headstrong and difficult sometimes, but it is just her way and there is a language barrier too as I said. But she's damn good at muscle work and I don't imagine I'll ever find anyone better at that. Until now I mainly wanted the muscle work on my sore glutes and lower back because that was always a big problem for me. Fortunately, as I said, I've diagnosed my bad posture and work habits and corrected now quite successfully, much to my own surprise and in such short order. So in addition to generally not having intake interviews, I didn't desire to have my chest rubbed until now. The only one that did an interview was the one I went to recently when my regular MT was on vacation. When I went back a few weeks ago I told her how great it was the last time when she just rubbed my sternum--as I've already related--she said "oh, ok. The chest isn't a part of the normal routine, but I'll do that this time". No hesitation whatever, and obviously no problem or hesitation in working the chest. And when I was leaving she said "next time I'll do your abs." I didn't even ask. That might have been a bit of salesmanship, but it was refreshing. This MT has qualifications as long as your arm--and she's pretty expensive--but she communicates so well and seems to get me. I think she just knows I'd like it based on how I have responded so far to what she's done. The first time I went to her she mentioned that she gets massages regularly and craves them if she goes too long between sessions. I immediately thought "here's someone who gets it."
If you'd read my post you'd know that I do know that. You might also guess that I consider this particular rule fairly arbitrary, and you yourself seem to know that since you say it is against "many" codes of conduct. Funny how you weren't willing to say it is against ALL "professional codes of conduct," which would really give the moral condemnation you wish to imply. But you can't because you know that it IS allowed under a many massage therapy professional codes of conduct. I've heard some MTs (online) say they were taught never to work the abs. As I said, I don't think it was at all stimulatory the way she worked the chest. It wasn't intended that way, and it wasn't received that way. I'm not in favor of criminalizing differences in opinion. Since I posted originally I have learned a lot about how different MTs approach things. So this is my last word and report.
Well I know I posted a lot of text, but I did explain that I asked the MT who had already done that and described her response. I don't know what is professional draping, and I do desire draping --in fact wouldn't accept no draping--but you have to realize until even after my original post I'd never even had any part of my upper body uncovered in the five years or so I've been getting massages. You shouldn't be so suspicious of people. Everyone isn't a creep.
I went to the website that speaks of sensual massage because though I wanted to try a hot oil massage, I was concerned that it could be code for something illegitimate. Sorry moderator, but I confirmed that it wasn't (the pervs all said "nothing happening here, but a pretty good massage") the only way there was to do it in advance. You have no reason to insinuate what you did.
Because not all MT's do intake discussions. Of the three MTs I've seen in the last five years, only one has ever done an intake discussion. I rate health professionals on their work, not their interpersonal skills. My main MT is somewhat headstrong and difficult sometimes, but it is just her way and there is a language barrier too as I said. But she's damn good at muscle work and I don't imagine I'll ever find anyone better at that. Until now I mainly wanted the muscle work on my sore glutes and lower back because that was always a big problem for me. Fortunately, as I said, I've diagnosed my bad posture and work habits and corrected now quite successfully, much to my own surprise and in such short order. So in addition to generally not having intake interviews, I didn't desire to have my chest rubbed until now. The only one that did an interview was the one I went to recently when my regular MT was on vacation. When I went back a few weeks ago I told her how great it was the last time when she just rubbed my sternum--as I've already related--she said "oh, ok. The chest isn't a part of the normal routine, but I'll do that this time". No hesitation whatever, and obviously no problem or hesitation in working the chest. And when I was leaving she said "next time I'll do your abs." I didn't even ask. That might have been a bit of salesmanship, but it was refreshing. This MT has qualifications as long as your arm--and she's pretty expensive--but she communicates so well and seems to get me. I think she just knows I'd like it based on how I have responded so far to what she's done. The first time I went to her she mentioned that she gets massages regularly and craves them if she goes too long between sessions. I immediately thought "here's someone who gets it."
If you'd read my post you'd know that I do know that. You might also guess that I consider this particular rule fairly arbitrary, and you yourself seem to know that since you say it is against "many" codes of conduct. Funny how you weren't willing to say it is against ALL "professional codes of conduct," which would really give the moral condemnation you wish to imply. But you can't because you know that it IS allowed under a many massage therapy professional codes of conduct. I've heard some MTs (online) say they were taught never to work the abs. As I said, I don't think it was at all stimulatory the way she worked the chest. It wasn't intended that way, and it wasn't received that way. I'm not in favor of criminalizing differences in opinion. Since I posted originally I have learned a lot about how different MTs approach things. So this is my last word and report.
What requests are *appropriate*?
Ok, I forgot to note the most absurd of your assumptions. You said:
I didn't offer her cash to do anything. She didn't ask for cash. The extended session was at their standard rate. When I called for the appt I said 2 hrs for the appt but when I arrived I could tell the owner thought that might be a bit long. So she said "try 90 and it can be extended if you want." I know some MTS say 2 hours is too much, but I know one of the three I know *prefers* 2 hour appointments. As I said, there was no interview by the MT and that has not been unusual in my experience. So when she was about to stop (I don't have a good grasp of time without clock watching) but hadn't done the chest or abs I thought I'd ask then and she told me (as I had already heard from the owner) that she could but we'd have to extend the session at the rate we both knew it was.
The cash I was describing above, if you'd go back and read it, was the tip. As I said, I tipped her afterwards generously at the front desk when I paid. That is the routine followed everywhere I've ever seen. At my usual place (a small place with reasonable prices) I now tip at about 40% of the price. This latest visit in question it was also quite reasonable I thought and I tipped at 50% more because I really did appreciate the work she did. BTW, at the more expensive rates of the larger establishments I could not afford to do this. So as interesting as the salacious version in your mind, but that's what happened.
Ok, I forgot to note the most absurd of your assumptions. You said:
I didn't offer her cash to do anything. She didn't ask for cash. The extended session was at their standard rate. When I called for the appt I said 2 hrs for the appt but when I arrived I could tell the owner thought that might be a bit long. So she said "try 90 and it can be extended if you want." I know some MTS say 2 hours is too much, but I know one of the three I know *prefers* 2 hour appointments. As I said, there was no interview by the MT and that has not been unusual in my experience. So when she was about to stop (I don't have a good grasp of time without clock watching) but hadn't done the chest or abs I thought I'd ask then and she told me (as I had already heard from the owner) that she could but we'd have to extend the session at the rate we both knew it was.
The cash I was describing above, if you'd go back and read it, was the tip. As I said, I tipped her afterwards generously at the front desk when I paid. That is the routine followed everywhere I've ever seen. At my usual place (a small place with reasonable prices) I now tip at about 40% of the price. This latest visit in question it was also quite reasonable I thought and I tipped at 50% more because I really did appreciate the work she did. BTW, at the more expensive rates of the larger establishments I could not afford to do this. So as interesting as the salacious version in your mind, but that's what happened.
jbo5,
I believe your recent string of posts takes us full circle as to what you came here for originally:
It appears you have become quite comfortable with massage etiquette, and have now found three therapists who are able to provide different types of sessions you may be looking for. You have also made it abundantly clear that you are now able to talk "freely" with a therapist.
You must understand that as MT's we see a lot over the years and we become well versed in dealing with wolves in sheeps clothing. Certain phrasing tends to bring about concern. If you don't want to be seen in that light, I suggest you don't mention things like:
t017[/quote]
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Topic review - What requests are *appropriate*?
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riversinger
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Re: What requests are *appropriate*?
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I'm with you Pete. Gotta appreciate how those of us who have been on the forum for years now, as well as in the business for over 20+ years, can be judged by someone who has just recently begun posting here regarding how many of us there are, as well as our level of helpfulness & expertise. Never mind the posts they've chosen to make and what their level of expectation is, much less how much they're really concerned about offending any practitioners...Just saying...
:iagree: I'm with you Pete. Gotta appreciate how those of us who have been on the forum for years now, as well as in the business for over 20+ years, can be judged by someone who has just recently begun posting here regarding how many of us there are, as well as our level of helpfulness & expertise. Never mind the posts they've chosen to make and what their level of expectation is, much less how much they're really concerned about offending any practitioners...Just saying...
Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 4:53 pm
pueppi
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Re: What requests are *appropriate*?
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peacenut wrote::D Thank you Pete. You said it well.
[quote="peacenut"]:D Thank you Pete. You said it well.[/quote] :iagree:
Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 4:19 pm
peacenut
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Re: What requests are *appropriate*?
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Thank you Pete. You said it well.
:D Thank you Pete. You said it well.
Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:05 pm
Pete
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Re: What requests are *appropriate*?
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1969libertine wrote:jbo5 - if you write to this forum as a male client, you are pretty much assumed to be a creep. It's not that you are male or a male client that made some posters view you as creepy and you know that. But, if you need clarification as to what statements you made that set off red flags, here they are in bold:1969libertine wrote:I was lying on my back while she massaged my hands and arms. As she was holding my arm doing her thing, my fingers brushed against her breast. I assumed it was incidental and spent the next minute trying to fight off an erection. After my hands, she moved behind me and started on my neck. She must have been leaning over me, because I could feel her necklace dangling against my forehead. Then I felt what I'm pretty sure were her breasts grazing against the top of my forehead, several times. I'm only 95% sure because I kept my eyes closed, but what else could it be? Anyway, that gave me a full erection that lasted a couple of minutes. That didn't seem to bother her as she was especially warm with me afterwards.My question - was all this incidental? I'd be inclined to dismiss it as such, but neither of these things has ever happened to me during a massage before, and she's a veteran pro who knows her way around a massage table. Historically, this forum has attracted numerous "trolls" - posters whose sole purpose in posting was to gain some excitement by talking about sexual aspects of massage and most of those threads involve discussions about erections. As a board, these discussions are strongly discouraged as those of us who are long-term participants of this forum and professional Massage Therapists have long since tired of these topics to the degree where we, as a forum, have felt it necessary to place not one but TWO separate threads at the top of the topic list for this section detailing what is and is not acceptable to have posted in this section of the board. For your convenience I will link to both of those threads and if you have not already done so, please read them:Please Read Before You Post - Client SectionClient FAQs: Please Read Before PostingFWIW, I am not accusing YOU of being a troll per se, just stating my opinion of how/why you may have been viewed as and treated as one in the context of your "Inappropriate Contact" topic.Quote:From what I can tell, it's a very small group of therapists that hang out here, and they are by no means representative of the profession.Yes, compared to the massage profession as a whole, we are just a small and random sampling of our profession. No one here has ever tried to claim that we represent a majority of the profession. Quote:And, as you've seen, they are not at all helpful. That truly is a matter of opinion, which you are entitled to. However, I would argue that your experience is not necessarily representative of this board. I would also caution that whenever you post a question on ANY internet forum, you should be prepared for a wide variety of responses, some of which you may not like. Quote:Just talk to your therapist, ask for what you want, and don't worry about offending her.If you're not someone who worries about offending massage therapists, why didn't you just ask YOUR massage therapist your question directly (ie: Your breasts hit my forehead, what's that about?") rather than post to an internet forum asking us in essence "what's going on in my massage therapist's head?" Also, if you are truly not worried about offending us, why should we be concerned that we have offended you?
[quote="1969libertine"]jbo5 - if you write to this forum as a male client, you are pretty much assumed to be a creep. [/quote]It's not that you are male or a male client that made some posters view you as creepy and you know that. But, if you need clarification as to what statements you made that set off red flags, here they are in bold:[quote="1969libertine"]I was lying on my back while she massaged my hands and arms. As she was holding my arm doing her thing, [b]my fingers brushed against her breast[/b]. I assumed it was incidental and[b] spent the next minute trying to fight off an erection[/b]. After my hands, she moved behind me and started on my neck. She must have been leaning over me, because I could feel her necklace dangling against my forehead. [b]Then I felt what I'm pretty sure were her breasts grazing against the top of my forehead, several times.[/b] I'm only 95% sure because I kept my eyes closed, but what else could it be? Anyway, [b]that gave me a full erection that lasted a couple of minutes. That didn't seem to bother her as she was especially warm with me afterwards.[/b]My question - was all this incidental? I'd be inclined to dismiss it as such, but neither of these things has ever happened to me during a massage before, and she's a veteran pro who knows her way around a massage table. [/quote]Historically, this forum has attracted numerous "trolls" - posters whose sole purpose in posting was to gain some excitement by talking about sexual aspects of massage and most of those threads involve discussions about erections. As a board, these discussions are strongly discouraged as those of us who are long-term participants of this forum and professional Massage Therapists have long since tired of these topics to the degree where we, as a forum, have felt it necessary to place not one but TWO separate threads at the top of the topic list for this section detailing what is and is not acceptable to have posted in this section of the board. For your convenience I will link to both of those threads and if you have not already done so, please read them:[url=http://massageplanet.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=395#p3326]Please Read Before You Post - Client Section[/url][url=http://massageplanet.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=10993]Client FAQs: Please Read Before Posting[/url]FWIW, I am not accusing YOU of being a troll per se, just stating my opinion of how/why you may have been viewed as and treated as one in the context of your "Inappropriate Contact" topic.[quote]From what I can tell, it's a very small group of therapists that hang out here, and they are by no means representative of the profession.[/quote]Yes, compared to the massage profession as a whole, we are just a small and random sampling of our profession. No one here has ever tried to claim that we represent a majority of the profession. [quote]And, as you've seen, they are not at all helpful. [/quote]That truly is a matter of opinion, which you are entitled to. However, I would argue that your experience is not necessarily representative of this board. I would also caution that whenever you post a question on ANY internet forum, you should be prepared for a wide variety of responses, some of which you may not like. [quote]Just talk to your therapist, ask for what you want, and [b]don't worry about offending her.[/b][/quote]If you're not someone who worries about offending massage therapists, why didn't you just ask YOUR massage therapist your question directly (ie: Your breasts hit my forehead, what's that about?") rather than post to an internet forum asking us in essence "what's going on in my massage therapist's head?" Also, if you are truly not worried about offending us, why should we be concerned that we have offended you?
Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:10 am
pueppi
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Re: What requests are *appropriate*?
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1969libertine wrote:jbo5 - if you write to this forum as a male client, you are pretty much assumed to be a creep. From what I can tell, it's a very small group of therapists that hang out here, and they are by no means representative of the profession. And, as you've seen, they are not at all helpful. Most of the therapists on this forum are seasoned verterans, so you are probably correct, they may not be representative of the profession in regard to an online venue. But what really strikes me, is that this is a strange post to make, coming from someone who just recently wrote:1969libertine wrote:It seems your profession has to fend off a good number of lonely, delusional, or entitled men with unrealistic expectations, so I appreciate your taking me at my word and not tossing me into that bucket.
[quote="1969libertine"]jbo5 - if you write to this forum as a male client, you are pretty much assumed to be a creep. From what I can tell, it's a very small group of therapists that hang out here, and they are by no means representative of the profession. And, as you've seen, they are not at all helpful. [/quote]Most of the therapists on this forum are seasoned verterans, so you are probably correct, they may not be representative of the profession in regard to an online venue. But what really strikes me, is that this is a strange post to make, coming from someone who just recently wrote:[quote="[url=http://www.massageplanet.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=33171&start=0]1969libertine[/url]"]It seems your profession has to fend off a good number of lonely, delusional, or entitled men with unrealistic expectations, so I appreciate your taking me at my word and not tossing me into that bucket. [/quote]
Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:32 pm
1969libertine
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Re: What requests are *appropriate*?
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jbo5 - if you write to this forum as a male client, you are pretty much assumed to be a creep. From what I can tell, it's a very small group of therapists that hang out here, and they are by no means representative of the profession. And, as you've seen, they are not at all helpful. Just talk to your therapist, ask for what you want, and don't worry about offending her. If she won't rub your sternum, find someone who will.Best of luck.
jbo5 - if you write to this forum as a male client, you are pretty much assumed to be a creep. From what I can tell, it's a very small group of therapists that hang out here, and they are by no means representative of the profession. And, as you've seen, they are not at all helpful. Just talk to your therapist, ask for what you want, and don't worry about offending her. If she won't rub your sternum, find someone who will.Best of luck.
Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:08 pm
pueppi
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Re: What requests are *appropriate*?
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jbo5 wrote:... and tipped well demonstrating that I hold a decent job. I consider myself fortunate to live in a time and place where people study such things that they can care for me, and I'm as grateful as I can be and wish them to feel it.You don't need to demostrate to anyone that you hold a decent job. People come to us from all walks of life. Some of them save up for weeks to see us, others can throw their money away like it's going out of style. There is no need to tell us on a forum that you are talking about your wife, family, community, etc., in your sessions. If you didn't think about it until now, even questionable clients can (and will) talk about and do such things. So, I am not sure why this is so important for you to come back to. Great tips do not "a-great-client-make". They are only a bonus.jbo5 wrote:This is not a massage session people! I used rubmaps to learn whether it was a shady place, and I learned it wasn't and went because of *that*. And you are grossly mistaken if you are implying that supposed offending phrase is why the person called moderator imputed creepness to me. This is a public forum, and because we are therapists, we are going to respond to what you put out there for us to read. If it gets a little emotionally charged, then so be it. This may not be a massage session, but it certainly makes sense for us to address client and hobbyist comments when they seem a little out of the norm.It doesn't matter if someone had a "moderator" eforum.xxx or not. On this forum the moderators post as individuals who happen to do behind the scenes work. If they want to "moderate" you, you'll be given that information as a moderated post. There is certainly nothing wrong, in my opinion with JasonE (you really can call him by his screen name) addressing his legitimate concerns with your post.
[quote="jbo5"]... and tipped well demonstrating that I hold a decent job. I consider myself fortunate to live in a time and place where people study such things that they can care for me, and I'm as grateful as I can be and wish them to feel it.[/quote]You don't need to demostrate to anyone that you hold a decent job. People come to us from all walks of life. Some of them save up for weeks to see us, others can throw their money away like it's going out of style. There is no need to tell us on a forum that you are talking about your wife, family, community, etc., in your sessions. If you didn't think about it until now, even questionable clients can ([i]and will[/i]) talk about and do such things. So, I am not sure why this is so important for you to come back to. Great tips do not "a-great-client-make". They are only a bonus.[quote="jbo5"]This is not a massage session people! I used rubmaps to learn whether it was a shady place, and I learned it wasn't and went because of *that*. And you are grossly mistaken if you are implying that supposed offending phrase is why the person called moderator imputed creepness to me. [/quote]This is a public forum, and because we are therapists, we are going to respond to what you put out there for us to read. If it gets a little emotionally charged, then so be it. This may not be a massage session, but it certainly makes sense for us to address client and hobbyist comments when they seem a little out of the norm.It doesn't matter if someone had a "moderator" eforum.xxx or not. On this forum the moderators post as individuals who happen to do behind the scenes work. If they want to "moderate" you, you'll be given that information as a moderated post. There is certainly nothing wrong, in my opinion with JasonE ([i]you really can call him by his screen name[/i]) addressing his legitimate concerns with your post.
Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 11:29 am
shivashiva
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Re: What requests are *appropriate*?
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jbo5 wrote:Do you really think I don't get any of this by now? Spare me the condescending bull manure. I don't know why you bothered with the conciliatory "happened to me too" crap above if it was just a warm-up to remind me again how badly I screwed up. To keep reiterating what has already been said is a bit much.You are now officially a troll.
[quote="jbo5"]Do you really think I don't get any of this by now? Spare me the condescending bull manure. I don't know why you bothered with the conciliatory "happened to me too" crap above if it was just a warm-up to remind me again how badly I screwed up. To keep reiterating what has already been said is a bit much.[/quote]You are now officially a troll.
Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:47 am
jbo5
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Re: What requests are *appropriate*?
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Quote:When you post something online, people don't always read it the way you intended when you typed it. I have also been on the receiving end of suspicion and/or criticism... until I provided additional explanation.Thanks.Quote:The way you phrased some things was very similar to previous posts by known trolls, and that raised some red flags. As a new participant on these forums, the intent and meaning of what you post is subject to greater scrutiny until you have become "known" and somewhat better understood. That is part of the reason that all new MassagePlanetL members are asked to post introductions in the appropriate forum. As people get to know you through discussion, you will notice a change in the responses your posts receive.I don't have a problem with that fact that you wanted someone to work on your chest, but the way you described your search and the massage experiences came across... poorly. Your followup explanations and indignation were most welcome to me.Do you really think I don't get any of this by now? Spare me the condescending bull manure. I don't know why you bothered with the conciliatory "happened to me too" crap above if it was just a warm-up to remind me again how badly I screwed up. To keep reiterating what has already been said is a bit much.
[quote]When you post something online, people don't always read it the way you intended when you typed it. I have also been on the receiving end of suspicion and/or criticism... until I provided additional explanation.[/quote]Thanks.[quote]The way you phrased some things was very similar to previous posts by known trolls, and that raised some red flags. As a new participant on these forums, the intent and meaning of what you post is subject to greater scrutiny until you have become "known" and somewhat better understood. That is part of the reason that all new MassagePlanetL members are asked to post introductions in the appropriate forum. As people get to know you through discussion, you will notice a change in the responses your posts receive.I don't have a problem with that fact that you wanted someone to work on your chest, but the way you described your search and the massage experiences came across... poorly. Your followup explanations and indignation were most welcome to me.[/quote]Do you really think I don't get any of this by now? Spare me the condescending bull manure. I don't know why you bothered with the conciliatory "happened to me too" crap above if it was just a warm-up to remind me again how badly I screwed up. To keep reiterating what has already been said is a bit much.
Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:31 pm
JasonE
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Re: What requests are *appropriate*?
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To jbo5:When you post something online, people don't always read it the way you intended when you typed it. I have also been on the receiving end of suspicion and/or criticism... until I provided additional explanation. The way you phrased some things was very similar to previous posts by known trolls, and that raised some red flags. As a new participant on these forums, the intent and meaning of what you post is subject to greater scrutiny until you have become "known" and somewhat better understood. That is part of the reason that all new MassagePlanetL members are asked to post introductions in the appropriate forum. As people get to know you through discussion, you will notice a change in the responses your posts receive.I don't have a problem with that fact that you wanted someone to work on your chest, but the way you described your search and the massage experiences came across... poorly. Your followup explanations and indignation were most welcome to me.In my opinion, an MT that doesn't do a verbal intake is skipping one of the most important parts of the job. The verbal intake is their opportunity to discover and/or confirm whether you have any contraindications, why you are seeking massage, how your health history and lifestyle contribute to your current need for massage, whether you have any preferences about what you do/don't like, whether you have any particular requests, how long the massage will be, whether it would be appropriate to modify draping/bolstering for your comfort, whether you are on medications that may alter your physiological response to massage, etcetera. A good, detailed intake doesn't have to take a long time when skillfully done, and it can make all the difference between a so-so massage and a great one. Though it's possible to occasionally find an MT who seems to intuitively "understand" your needs, you also know that it's hit-or-miss and may vary from one session to the next. On the other hand, a good MT that is consistently thorough and keeps good notes on your history, needs, and preferences can usually be counted on to deliver great massages over and over again. A good MT should be well acquainted with how to work the abdomen, the glutes, the hip flexors, the chest, the thighs... professionally and effectively. They should know what they are working on and why they are doing it one way instead of another way - and be able to answer the questions you ask about that work (within the limits of their knowledge). Now that you have found some MTs that seem accommodating, you might want to ask them for a chance to discuss what you are looking for before your next massage begins so they can plan the session accordingly. That is more likely to result in the massage you want vs the massage you actually receive.
To jbo5:When you post something online, people don't always read it the way you intended when you typed it. I have also been on the receiving end of suspicion and/or criticism... until I provided additional explanation. The way you phrased some things was very similar to previous posts by known trolls, and that raised some red flags. As a new participant on these forums, the intent and meaning of what you post is subject to greater scrutiny until you have become "known" and somewhat better understood. That is part of the reason that all new MassagePlanetL members are asked to post introductions in the appropriate forum. As people get to know you through discussion, you will notice a change in the responses your posts receive.I don't have a problem with that fact that you wanted someone to work on your chest, but the way you described your search and the massage experiences came across... poorly. Your followup explanations and indignation were most welcome to me.In my opinion, an MT that doesn't do a verbal intake is skipping one of the most important parts of the job. The verbal intake is their opportunity to discover and/or confirm whether you have any contraindications, why you are seeking massage, how your health history and lifestyle contribute to your current need for massage, whether you have any preferences about what you do/don't like, whether you have any particular requests, how long the massage will be, whether it would be appropriate to modify draping/bolstering for your comfort, whether you are on medications that may alter your physiological response to massage, etcetera. A good, detailed intake doesn't have to take a long time when skillfully done, and it can make all the difference between a so-so massage and a great one. Though it's possible to occasionally find an MT who seems to intuitively "understand" your needs, you also know that it's hit-or-miss and may vary from one session to the next. On the other hand, a good MT that is consistently thorough and keeps good notes on your history, needs, and preferences can usually be counted on to deliver great massages over and over again. A good MT should be well acquainted with how to work the abdomen, the glutes, the hip flexors, the chest, the thighs... professionally and effectively. They should know what they are working on and why they are doing it one way instead of another way - and be able to answer the questions you ask about that work (within the limits of their knowledge). Now that you have found some MTs that seem accommodating, you might want to ask them for a chance to discuss what you are looking for before your next massage begins so they can plan the session accordingly. That is more likely to result in the massage you want vs the massage you actually receive. :)
Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:45 pm
jbo5
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Re: What requests are *appropriate*?
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Not to beat this to death, but to finish this off in a way that may help someone sometime, it has been said that I've learned how to talk to massage therapists freely about what I want. Actually it's a bit different. I've since discovered two MTs that seem to know what I wanted at the mere mention at the most. With one I just started to describe how it seemed like I felt an endorphin high in the two days after the previous visit from what I guessed was the brief rubbing of the upper sternum. She quickly volunteered to work the whole chest after I flipped. As I was leaving she volunteered "Next time I'll take time to do your abs." I didn't ask for anything. With the new MT last week as she was stopping I merely said something like "Could you work the front too?", or more likely the less direct "Do you ever work the front?" Whatever I said the took it as a request and immediately said "yes" and did so with no hesitation whatever and worked that area quite skillfully that showed much practice. My normal MT doesn't have that same cheerful willingness, though she's great with muscles.So I think the takeaway is that you probably need an MT that likes to receive the same thing that you do, and knows what you want at the mere mention at most. I suppose some special empathetic type who doesn't require this might do, but I don't know. The MT that candidly related to me that she craved a massage when it was time for hers was a revealing moment. I think the effectiveness of verbal communication may actually be more limited than commonly thought when it comes to massage.
Not to beat this to death, but to finish this off in a way that may help someone sometime, it has been said that I've learned how to talk to massage therapists freely about what I want. Actually it's a bit different. I've since discovered two MTs that seem to know what I wanted at the mere mention at the most. With one I just started to describe how it seemed like I felt an endorphin high in the two days after the previous visit from what I guessed was the brief rubbing of the upper sternum. She quickly volunteered to work the whole chest after I flipped. As I was leaving she volunteered "Next time I'll take time to do your abs." I didn't ask for anything. With the new MT last week as she was stopping I merely said something like "Could you work the front too?", or more likely the less direct "Do you ever work the front?" Whatever I said the took it as a request and immediately said "yes" and did so with no hesitation whatever and worked that area quite skillfully that showed much practice. My normal MT doesn't have that same cheerful willingness, though she's great with muscles.So I think the takeaway is that you probably need an MT that likes to receive the same thing that you do, and knows what you want at the mere mention at most. I suppose some special empathetic type who doesn't require this might do, but I don't know. The MT that candidly related to me that she craved a massage when it was time for hers was a revealing moment. I think the effectiveness of verbal communication may actually be more limited than commonly thought when it comes to massage.
Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:34 pm
jbo5
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Re: What requests are *appropriate*?
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Quote:It appears you have become quite comfortable with massage etiquette, and have now found three therapists who are able to provide different types of sessions you may be looking for.Yes, I guess so.Quote:You must understand that as MT's we see a lot over the years and we become well versed in dealing with wolves in sheeps clothing. Certain phrasing tends to bring about concern. If you don't want to be seen in that light, I suggest you don't mention things like:I have all the concern and respect for women MTs who treat men, and I don't expect one to be comfortable with me (though they may be) before I've been there a few times and conversed (I'm a talker during massages if the MT is ok with it and often they talk more than I) about my wife, family life, community, and tipped well demonstrating that I hold a decent job. I consider myself fortunate to live in a time and place where people study such things that they can care for me, and I'm as grateful as I can be and wish them to feel it.But you must realize that people who are anxious to defend their "professionalism" aren't helping themselves to do that by reacting emotionally to words rather than the content of a statement made online where no threat could be present. This is not a massage session people! I used rubmaps to learn whether it was a shady place, and I learned it wasn't and went because of *that*. And you are grossly mistaken if you are implying that supposed offending phrase is why the person called moderator imputed creepness to me. He/she obviously has far more problems with what I said than that. I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but I can see by many of the comments by MTs that many see themselves as muscle therapists, and many seem uncomfortable with what I think are called diaper drapes and Swedish relaxation massage.
[quote]It appears you have become quite comfortable with massage etiquette, and have now found three therapists who are able to provide different types of sessions you may be looking for.[/quote]Yes, I guess so.[quote]You must understand that as MT's we see a lot over the years and we become well versed in dealing with wolves in sheeps clothing. Certain phrasing tends to bring about concern. If you don't want to be seen in that light, I suggest you don't mention things like:[/quote]I have all the concern and respect for women MTs who treat men, and I don't expect one to be comfortable with me (though they may be) before I've been there a few times and conversed (I'm a talker during massages if the MT is ok with it and often they talk more than I) about my wife, family life, community, and tipped well demonstrating that I hold a decent job. I consider myself fortunate to live in a time and place where people study such things that they can care for me, and I'm as grateful as I can be and wish them to feel it.But you must realize that people who are anxious to defend their "professionalism" aren't helping themselves to do that by reacting emotionally to words rather than the content of a statement made online where no threat could be present. This is not a massage session people! I used rubmaps to learn whether it was a shady place, and I learned it wasn't and went because of *that*. And you are grossly mistaken if you are implying that supposed offending phrase is why the person called moderator imputed creepness to me. He/she obviously has far more problems with what I said than that. I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but I can see by many of the comments by MTs that many see themselves as muscle therapists, and many seem uncomfortable with what I think are called diaper drapes and Swedish relaxation massage.
Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 9:21 pm
pueppi
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Re: What requests are *appropriate*?
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jbo5, I believe your recent string of posts takes us full circle as to what you came here for originally:jbo5 wrote: I'm a man that loves getting massages, but am somewhat new to it and somewhat confused as to etiquette and such. So, to sum up, is it better to just enjoy the excellent job my therapist does or would it be a good idea to try to make it slightly better by asking for something she doesn't normally do? Advice?It appears you have become quite comfortable with massage etiquette, and have now found three therapists who are able to provide different types of sessions you may be looking for. You have also made it abundantly clear that you are now able to talk "freely" with a therapist. You must understand that as MT's we see a lot over the years and we become well versed in dealing with wolves in sheeps clothing. Certain phrasing tends to bring about concern. If you don't want to be seen in that light, I suggest you don't mention things like:Quote: I saw in an advertisement recently because it mentioned "hot oil", and also because I saw that in the rubmaps.com listing the perverts--I mean guys--were complaining that it was a "legit" business and didn't provide "extras".
jbo5, I believe your recent string of posts takes us full circle as to what you came here for originally:[quote="jbo5"] I'm a man that loves getting massages, but am somewhat new to it and somewhat confused as to etiquette and such. So, to sum up, is it better to just enjoy the excellent job my therapist does or would it be a good idea to try to make it slightly better by asking for something she doesn't normally do? Advice?[/quote]It appears you have become quite comfortable with massage etiquette, and have now found three therapists who are able to provide different types of sessions you may be looking for. You have also made it abundantly clear that you are now able to talk "freely" with a therapist. You must understand that as MT's we see a lot over the years and we become well versed in dealing with wolves in sheeps clothing. Certain phrasing tends to bring about concern. If you don't want to be seen in that light, I suggest you don't mention things like:[quote] I saw in an advertisement recently because it mentioned "hot oil", and also because I saw that in the rubmaps.com listing the perverts--I mean guys--were complaining that it was a "legit" business and didn't provide "extras".[/quote] :smt017
Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:21 pm
jbo5
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Re: What requests are *appropriate*?
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Ok, I forgot to note the most absurd of your assumptions. You said:Quote:why did you lay there with "minimal coverage" on your genitals and ask for her to do "my front" and offer extra cash?I didn't offer her cash to do anything. She didn't ask for cash. The extended session was at their standard rate. When I called for the appt I said 2 hrs for the appt but when I arrived I could tell the owner thought that might be a bit long. So she said "try 90 and it can be extended if you want." I know some MTS say 2 hours is too much, but I know one of the three I know *prefers* 2 hour appointments. As I said, there was no interview by the MT and that has not been unusual in my experience. So when she was about to stop (I don't have a good grasp of time without clock watching) but hadn't done the chest or abs I thought I'd ask then and she told me (as I had already heard from the owner) that she could but we'd have to extend the session at the rate we both knew it was. The cash I was describing above, if you'd go back and read it, was the tip. As I said, I tipped her afterwards generously at the front desk when I paid. That is the routine followed everywhere I've ever seen. At my usual place (a small place with reasonable prices) I now tip at about 40% of the price. This latest visit in question it was also quite reasonable I thought and I tipped at 50% more because I really did appreciate the work she did. BTW, at the more expensive rates of the larger establishments I could not afford to do this. So as interesting as the salacious version in your mind, but that's what happened.
Ok, I forgot to note the most absurd of your assumptions. You said:[quote]why did you lay there with "minimal coverage" on your genitals and ask for her to do "my front" and offer extra cash?[/quote]I didn't offer her cash to do anything. She didn't ask for cash. The extended session was at their standard rate. When I called for the appt I said 2 hrs for the appt but when I arrived I could tell the owner thought that might be a bit long. So she said "try 90 and it can be extended if you want." I know some MTS say 2 hours is too much, but I know one of the three I know *prefers* 2 hour appointments. As I said, there was no interview by the MT and that has not been unusual in my experience. So when she was about to stop (I don't have a good grasp of time without clock watching) but hadn't done the chest or abs I thought I'd ask then and she told me (as I had already heard from the owner) that she could but we'd have to extend the session at the rate we both knew it was. The cash I was describing above, if you'd go back and read it, was the tip. As I said, I tipped her afterwards generously at the front desk when I paid. That is the routine followed everywhere I've ever seen. At my usual place (a small place with reasonable prices) I now tip at about 40% of the price. This latest visit in question it was also quite reasonable I thought and I tipped at 50% more because I really did appreciate the work she did. BTW, at the more expensive rates of the larger establishments I could not afford to do this. So as interesting as the salacious version in your mind, but that's what happened.
Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:35 am
jbo5
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Re: What requests are *appropriate*?
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Quote:You wanted to find a legitimate massage therapist who would massage your chest and abdomen. Instead of asking the MT who had already done that for you, you went to a web site that advertises and discusses sensual massage parlours.Well I know I posted a lot of text, but I did explain that I asked the MT who had already done that and described her response. I don't know what is professional draping, and I do desire draping --in fact wouldn't accept no draping--but you have to realize until even after my original post I'd never even had any part of my upper body uncovered in the five years or so I've been getting massages. You shouldn't be so suspicious of people. Everyone isn't a creep.I went to the website that speaks of sensual massage because though I wanted to try a hot oil massage, I was concerned that it could be code for something illegitimate. Sorry moderator, but I confirmed that it wasn't (the pervs all said "nothing happening here, but a pretty good massage") the only way there was to do it in advance. You have no reason to insinuate what you did.Quote:Instead of specifying the precise nature of your request during the intake discussion with this "legit" MT so she could plan it as part of the session, why did you lay there with "minimal coverage" on your genitals and ask for her to do "my front" and offer extra cash?Because not all MT's do intake discussions. Of the three MTs I've seen in the last five years, only one has ever done an intake discussion. I rate health professionals on their work, not their interpersonal skills. My main MT is somewhat headstrong and difficult sometimes, but it is just her way and there is a language barrier too as I said. But she's damn good at muscle work and I don't imagine I'll ever find anyone better at that. Until now I mainly wanted the muscle work on my sore glutes and lower back because that was always a big problem for me. Fortunately, as I said, I've diagnosed my bad posture and work habits and corrected now quite successfully, much to my own surprise and in such short order. So in addition to generally not having intake interviews, I didn't desire to have my chest rubbed until now. The only one that did an interview was the one I went to recently when my regular MT was on vacation. When I went back a few weeks ago I told her how great it was the last time when she just rubbed my sternum--as I've already related--she said "oh, ok. The chest isn't a part of the normal routine, but I'll do that this time". No hesitation whatever, and obviously no problem or hesitation in working the chest. And when I was leaving she said "next time I'll do your abs." I didn't even ask. That might have been a bit of salesmanship, but it was refreshing. This MT has qualifications as long as your arm--and she's pretty expensive--but she communicates so well and seems to get me. I think she just knows I'd like it based on how I have responded so far to what she's done. The first time I went to her she mentioned that she gets massages regularly and craves them if she goes too long between sessions. I immediately thought "here's someone who gets it." Quote:You go on and on about how this "totally professional" MT rubbed your nipples.Are you aware that rubbing nipples is not considered ethical, and is in direct violation of many massage therapy professional codes of conduct?If you'd read my post you'd know that I do know that. You might also guess that I consider this particular rule fairly arbitrary, and you yourself seem to know that since you say it is against "many" codes of conduct. Funny how you weren't willing to say it is against ALL "professional codes of conduct," which would really give the moral condemnation you wish to imply. But you can't because you know that it IS allowed under a many massage therapy professional codes of conduct. I've heard some MTs (online) say they were taught never to work the abs. As I said, I don't think it was at all stimulatory the way she worked the chest. It wasn't intended that way, and it wasn't received that way. I'm not in favor of criminalizing differences in opinion. Since I posted originally I have learned a lot about how different MTs approach things. So this is my last word and report.
[quote]You wanted to find a legitimate massage therapist who would massage your chest and abdomen. Instead of asking the MT who had already done that for you, you went to a web site that advertises and discusses sensual massage parlours.[/quote]Well I know I posted a lot of text, but I did explain that I asked the MT who had already done that and described her response. I don't know what is professional draping, and I do desire draping --in fact wouldn't accept no draping--but you have to realize until even after my original post I'd never even had any part of my upper body uncovered in the five years or so I've been getting massages. You shouldn't be so suspicious of people. Everyone isn't a creep.I went to the website that speaks of sensual massage because though I wanted to try a hot oil massage, I was concerned that it could be code for something illegitimate. Sorry moderator, but I confirmed that it wasn't (the pervs all said "nothing happening here, but a pretty good massage") the only way there was to do it in advance. You have no reason to insinuate what you did.[quote]Instead of specifying the precise nature of your request during the intake discussion with this "legit" MT so she could plan it as part of the session, why did you lay there with "minimal coverage" on your genitals and ask for her to do "my front" and offer extra cash?[/quote]Because not all MT's do intake discussions. Of the three MTs I've seen in the last five years, only one has ever done an intake discussion. I rate health professionals on their work, not their interpersonal skills. My main MT is somewhat headstrong and difficult sometimes, but it is just her way and there is a language barrier too as I said. But she's damn good at muscle work and I don't imagine I'll ever find anyone better at that. Until now I mainly wanted the muscle work on my sore glutes and lower back because that was always a big problem for me. Fortunately, as I said, I've diagnosed my bad posture and work habits and corrected now quite successfully, much to my own surprise and in such short order. So in addition to generally not having intake interviews, I didn't desire to have my chest rubbed until now. The only one that did an interview was the one I went to recently when my regular MT was on vacation. When I went back a few weeks ago I told her how great it was the last time when she just rubbed my sternum--as I've already related--she said "oh, ok. The chest isn't a part of the normal routine, but I'll do that this time". No hesitation whatever, and obviously no problem or hesitation in working the chest. And when I was leaving she said "next time I'll do your abs." I didn't even ask. That might have been a bit of salesmanship, but it was refreshing. This MT has qualifications as long as your arm--and she's pretty expensive--but she communicates so well and seems to get me. I think she just knows I'd like it based on how I have responded so far to what she's done. The first time I went to her she mentioned that she gets massages regularly and craves them if she goes too long between sessions. I immediately thought "here's someone who gets it." [quote]You go on and on about how this "totally professional" MT rubbed your nipples.Are you aware that rubbing nipples is not considered ethical, and is in direct violation of many massage therapy professional codes of conduct?[/quote]If you'd read my post you'd know that I do know that. You might also guess that I consider this particular rule fairly arbitrary, and you yourself seem to know that since you say it is against "many" codes of conduct. Funny how you weren't willing to say it is against ALL "professional codes of conduct," which would really give the moral condemnation you wish to imply. But you can't because you know that it IS allowed under a many massage therapy professional codes of conduct. I've heard some MTs (online) say they were taught never to work the abs. As I said, I don't think it was at all stimulatory the way she worked the chest. It wasn't intended that way, and it wasn't received that way. I'm not in favor of criminalizing differences in opinion. Since I posted originally I have learned a lot about how different MTs approach things. So this is my last word and report.
Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:27 am
JasonE
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Re: What requests are *appropriate*?
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Quote:I scheduled an appointment yesterday with a more distant massage establishment near Los Angeles (I live in Orange county) I saw in an advertisement recently because it mentioned "hot oil", and also because I saw that in the rubmaps.com listing the perverts--I mean guys--were complaining that it was a "legit" business and didn't provide "extras". LOL. I've never visited a dodgy establishment that does anything illicit. But I wanted to experience a hot oil massage and maybe less squeamishness about draping if possible. Since those that should know declared it "legit" it sounded like the ticket and I made an appointment for Sat morning. So I went there and the only draping they used was a tiny towel for minimal coverage of the butt-crack and genitals after flip. The rooms were warm for the purpose and the table was heated, and it was comfortable even though I get cold easily. A pretty good massage. I wasn't sure if she'd do chest/abs, and when she seemed done I asked if she could do "my front" or some such language indicating my trunk too and she said she could and I said I'd pay for whatever extra time it took. So I could see she wasn't going to do that originally, but she didn't mind at all doing it either.Hmm. Several things about your story don't add up: You wanted to find a legitimate massage therapist who would massage your chest and abdomen. Instead of asking the MT who had already done that for you, you went to a web site that advertises and discusses sensual massage parlours. You wanted less draping -why? This is the first time you've mentioned a desire for less than professional draping. Instead of specifying the precise nature of your request during the intake discussion with this "legit" MT so she could plan it as part of the session, why did you lay there with "minimal coverage" on your genitals and ask for her to do "my front" and offer extra cash?You go on and on about how this "totally professional" MT rubbed your nipples.Are you aware that rubbing nipples is not considered ethical, and is in direct violation of many massage therapy professional codes of conduct?I half expect you to start clamoring for undraped massage next...
[quote]I scheduled an appointment yesterday with a more distant massage establishment near Los Angeles (I live in Orange county) I saw in an advertisement recently because it mentioned "hot oil", and also because [b]I saw that in the rubmaps.com listing[/b] the perverts--I mean guys--were complaining that it was a "legit" business and didn't provide "extras". LOL. I've never visited a dodgy establishment that does anything illicit. But I wanted to experience a hot oil massage [b]and maybe less squeamishness about draping if possible.[/b] Since those that should know declared it "legit" it sounded like the ticket and I made an appointment for Sat morning. So I went there and[b] the only draping they used was a tiny towel for minimal coverage[/b] of the butt-crack and genitals after flip. The rooms were warm for the purpose and the table was heated, and it was comfortable even though I get cold easily. A pretty good massage. I wasn't sure if she'd do chest/abs, and [b]when she seemed done I asked if she could do "my front" or some such language[/b] indicating my trunk too and she said she could and I said [b]I'd pay for whatever extra time it too[/b]k. So I could see [b]she wasn't going to do that originally, but she didn't mind at all doing it either[/b].[/quote]Hmm. Several things about your story don't add up: You wanted to find a legitimate massage therapist who would massage your chest and abdomen. Instead of asking the MT who had already done that for you, you went to a web site that advertises and discusses sensual massage parlours. You wanted less draping -why? This is the first time you've mentioned a desire for less than professional draping. Instead of specifying the precise nature of your request during the intake discussion with this "legit" MT so she could plan it as part of the session, why did you lay there with "minimal coverage" on your genitals and ask for her to do "my front" and offer extra cash?You go on and on about how this "totally professional" MT rubbed your nipples.Are you aware that rubbing nipples is not considered ethical, and is in direct violation of many massage therapy professional codes of conduct?I half expect you to start clamoring for undraped massage next...
Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:31 am
jbo5
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Re: What requests are *appropriate*?
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pueppi: I'm coming to the same conclusion about possibly needing more than one therapist. For example, just in the last week I've decided I need two mechanics, one for stuff I imagine requires complex diagnostics because I recently stumbled across one who seems particularly interested and challenged by those issues, and my normal one for everything else. Maybe it is the same with massage therapists.As I was relating earlier, when I visited the new therapist she lightly rubbed my sternum that was a new experience for me, and it just feel really good. Something I felt even two days later. Perhaps endorphins, but I don't know. It reminded me of an endorphin rush in the days following a run after a long break back back when I used to run. But a funny thing happened just after my normal massage therapist returned from vacation. I had a psoas spasm (diagnosed by my chiropractor) after a workout, um . . . miscalculation. I hadn't yet asked her about the chest or abs. The reason I was squeamish about doing it is that she's the first regular therapist I've ever had, and I wasn't some veteran who knew the normal practice. Additionally, I couldn't help but think that since I'd been seeing her for several years and she never did or offered maybe that was because she wasn't comfortable with it and it would make her uncomfortable to ask. Anyway, when I hobbled in and told her what happened and what the chiropractor said (and he did a "psoas release" via the abdomen) she took the towel down to my waist and worked my abs really well. It felt great. It took a week and a half of psoas stretches at home to make the pain go away, but I saw she knew how to do abs. The next time (only a few days later still recovering) she did the same thing again, and I asked if she'd do the chest too and she did. It felt fabulous and the same thing occurred as with the other therapist: two or three days of feel-good endorphins or whatever it is that is at once relaxing and energizing at the same time. I have no idea if anyone else experiences this, and I have no idea if it is endorphins (if so it probably won't last since one adjusts to it), or has anything to do with chi, chakra, or whatever, but damn it feels good. If it is an endorphin thing then the rush will cease after awhile, but I'd still think that meant something good healthy and good about the activity nonetheless.But in subsequent visits it seems to me that she isn't as willing to do abdominals and/or chest just because I like it as she is if I'm hurt or have some specific problem that requires it. I sense a reluctance now that I'm well. The last thing I'd want to do is make her feel uncomfortable, and yet I definitely want to have chest/abs massaged now that I've experienced this for the reasons I've given. In my analysis, she is a massage therapist that isn't into getting massages herself, and she really doesn't get that it is important to me now. The last thing I want to do is make her uncomfortable, and I have have complete respect for her. When you get to a certain age and place all younger women seem like your daughter. But we'll see how it goes. She unusually talent with deep muscle work in my opinion.Part of trying to figure out how to handle this involves seeing how other therapists work, and in that spirit and on the subject of chest/abs massage I scheduled an appointment yesterday with a more distant massage establishment near Los Angeles (I live in Orange county) I saw in an advertisement recently because it mentioned "hot oil", and also because I saw that in the rubmaps.com listing the perverts--I mean guys--were complaining that it was a "legit" business and didn't provide "extras". LOL. I've never visited a dodgy establishment that does anything illicit. But I wanted to experience a hot oil massage and maybe less squeamishness about draping if possible. Since those that should know declared it "legit" it sounded like the ticket and I made an appointment for Sat morning. So I went there and the only draping they used was a tiny towel for minimal coverage of the butt-crack and genitals after flip. The rooms were warm for the purpose and the table was heated, and it was comfortable even though I get cold easily. A pretty good massage. I wasn't sure if she'd do chest/abs, and when she seemed done I asked if she could do "my front" or some such language indicating my trunk too and she said she could and I said I'd pay for whatever extra time it took. So I could see she wasn't going to do that originally, but she didn't mind at all doing it either.So she did the oil massage on my chest and abs and I have to say it was an other-worldly experience. She just rubbed me all over my trunk with smooth gliding strokes, and it was about at great as I could ever imagine. It was obvious she had no discomfort at all in doing it. Sometimes abs, sometimes sternum, sometimes pecs or ribs and often all of them in long gliding strokes. It was amazing. The surprising thing was that she did not avoid my nipples. I assumed all therapists would, and mine are quite sensitive so I thought I'd never like that in any case if a therapist (or anyone other than a wife or girlfriend) ever did it, but it took me awhile to even realize it. She wasn't massaging my nipples--she was ignoring them and massaging my chest as if I had none. I don't know if local ordinances permit this in this city or not, or if her training was different or not, but the mantra of "avoid the nipples" was certainly not adhered to and to my amazement it was truly great because of the total coverage on the trunk. I thanked her profusely for extending the massage and said how relaxing it was, and afterwards tipped her over 50% of the cost. I'll definitely go back and ask for her. Since I'm no longer having muscle issues, I just wanted a relaxation massage and to see what other therapists did as far as the chest. What a massage it was. During the strokes over my chest and sternum felt like she was touching my soul. I'm sure there will be those who will say this was a "sensual massage" and something improper was done, but my therapist was totally professional and I totally respectful, and I talked freely with both her and the owner at the front desk afterwards.It takes all kinds I guess. Here is a woman who felt violated in some way by a chest massage by another woman, after consenting to it! http://www.yelp.com/biz/f-joseph-smith- ... ill-valley Can you believe it?"She then took her greasy oiled up hands and began to rub my chest, nipples, and stomach in a stroking motion." Her greasy oiled-up hands? The horror! Why would anyone this touchy ever go get a full-body massage in the first place?
pueppi: I'm coming to the same conclusion about possibly needing more than one therapist. For example, just in the last week I've decided I need two mechanics, one for stuff I imagine requires complex diagnostics because I recently stumbled across one who seems particularly interested and challenged by those issues, and my normal one for everything else. Maybe it is the same with massage therapists.As I was relating earlier, when I visited the new therapist she lightly rubbed my sternum that was a new experience for me, and it just feel really good. Something I felt even two days later. Perhaps endorphins, but I don't know. It reminded me of an endorphin rush in the days following a run after a long break back back when I used to run. But a funny thing happened just after my normal massage therapist returned from vacation. I had a psoas spasm (diagnosed by my chiropractor) after a workout, um . . . miscalculation. I hadn't yet asked her about the chest or abs. The reason I was squeamish about doing it is that she's the first regular therapist I've ever had, and I wasn't some veteran who knew the normal practice. Additionally, I couldn't help but think that since I'd been seeing her for several years and she never did or offered maybe that was because she wasn't comfortable with it and it would make her uncomfortable to ask. Anyway, when I hobbled in and told her what happened and what the chiropractor said (and he did a "psoas release" via the abdomen) she took the towel down to my waist and worked my abs really well. It felt great. It took a week and a half of psoas stretches at home to make the pain go away, but I saw she knew how to do abs. The next time (only a few days later still recovering) she did the same thing again, and I asked if she'd do the chest too and she did. It felt fabulous and the same thing occurred as with the other therapist: two or three days of feel-good endorphins or whatever it is that is at once relaxing and energizing at the same time. I have no idea if anyone else experiences this, and I have no idea if it is endorphins (if so it probably won't last since one adjusts to it), or has anything to do with chi, chakra, or whatever, but damn it feels good. If it is an endorphin thing then the rush will cease after awhile, but I'd still think that meant something good healthy and good about the activity nonetheless.But in subsequent visits it seems to me that she isn't as willing to do abdominals and/or chest just because I like it as she is if I'm hurt or have some specific problem that requires it. I sense a reluctance now that I'm well. The last thing I'd want to do is make her feel uncomfortable, and yet I definitely want to have chest/abs massaged now that I've experienced this for the reasons I've given. In my analysis, she is a massage therapist that isn't into getting massages herself, and she really doesn't get that it is important to me now. The last thing I want to do is make her uncomfortable, and I have have complete respect for her. When you get to a certain age and place all younger women seem like your daughter. But we'll see how it goes. She unusually talent with deep muscle work in my opinion.Part of trying to figure out how to handle this involves seeing how other therapists work, and in that spirit and on the subject of chest/abs massage I scheduled an appointment yesterday with a more distant massage establishment near Los Angeles (I live in Orange county) I saw in an advertisement recently because it mentioned "hot oil", and also because I saw that in the rubmaps.com listing the perverts--I mean guys--were complaining that it was a "legit" business and didn't provide "extras". LOL. I've never visited a dodgy establishment that does anything illicit. But I wanted to experience a hot oil massage and maybe less squeamishness about draping if possible. Since those that should know declared it "legit" it sounded like the ticket and I made an appointment for Sat morning. So I went there and the only draping they used was a tiny towel for minimal coverage of the butt-crack and genitals after flip. The rooms were warm for the purpose and the table was heated, and it was comfortable even though I get cold easily. A pretty good massage. I wasn't sure if she'd do chest/abs, and when she seemed done I asked if she could do "my front" or some such language indicating my trunk too and she said she could and I said I'd pay for whatever extra time it took. So I could see she wasn't going to do that originally, but she didn't mind at all doing it either.So she did the oil massage on my chest and abs and I have to say it was an other-worldly experience. She just rubbed me all over my trunk with smooth gliding strokes, and it was about at great as I could ever imagine. It was obvious she had no discomfort at all in doing it. Sometimes abs, sometimes sternum, sometimes pecs or ribs and often all of them in long gliding strokes. It was amazing. The surprising thing was that she did not avoid my nipples. I assumed all therapists would, and mine are quite sensitive so I thought I'd never like that in any case if a therapist (or anyone other than a wife or girlfriend) ever did it, but it took me awhile to even realize it. She wasn't massaging my nipples--she was ignoring them and massaging my chest as if I had none. I don't know if local ordinances permit this in this city or not, or if her training was different or not, but the mantra of "avoid the nipples" was certainly not adhered to and to my amazement it was truly great because of the total coverage on the trunk. I thanked her profusely for extending the massage and said how relaxing it was, and afterwards tipped her over 50% of the cost. I'll definitely go back and ask for her. Since I'm no longer having muscle issues, I just wanted a relaxation massage and to see what other therapists did as far as the chest. What a massage it was. During the strokes over my chest and sternum felt like she was touching my soul. I'm sure there will be those who will say this was a "sensual massage" and something improper was done, but my therapist was totally professional and I totally respectful, and I talked freely with both her and the owner at the front desk afterwards.It takes all kinds I guess. Here is a woman who felt violated in some way by a chest massage by another woman, after consenting to it! http://www.yelp.com/biz/f-joseph-smith-massage-therapy-mill-valley Can you believe it?"She then took her greasy oiled up hands and began to rub my chest, nipples, and stomach in a stroking motion." Her greasy oiled-up hands? The horror! Why would anyone this touchy ever go get a full-body massage in the first place?
Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:44 pm
jbo5
ย
Post subject:ย
Re: What requests are *appropriate*?
ย
For the last 4 years or so when I first started getting massages until now, my main concern was glutes because I work a desk job and 90% of the time I just wanted muscle work on those areas for relief. So up until now I've mainly scored a massage based on the glute work for that reason, and also because many therapists don't seem to work the glutes much. Or maybe its because they hold that in reserve for return clients when they see that's what you want. In any case my main therapists glute massages seemed to get better and better over the time I've been a client, and she's a particularly good as deep muscle work too. To me up until now, good glute massage = good massage, and less than great glute massage = less than great massage.But in the last year I've learned the hard way that no amount of muscle therapy or working out (I'm quite fit) can counteract what happens from sitting too long every day. I've learned that you can't climb out of the hole you dug for yourself all day no matter what you do. I turned fifty recently and my body can't take what I now know is abuse anymore. In the last year I found I increasingly had to visit a chiropractor, and it got to the point where I'd have to go every 3 weeks. I asked my chiro why he thought I needed the frequent adjustments that I never needed before, and he said the reason was that I just sit too much. He said to get up and stretch every thirty minutes. But after trying to do this I suddenly had an epiphany and decided this was merely a half-way measure, and I went one better and got a standing workstation and completely remade my work and home habits, which I came to see were simply killing my back. I sit to relax my back now instead of standing to stretch. I'm frequently moving and it works for me since I'm a naturally restless person, but when sitting and concentrating post-epiphany I realized that I tend to turn into a pretzel and stop breathing. Now I rotate between a handful of positions throughout the day, some of which are relaxing back stretches that seem natural. Now I have the normal healthy back I always had before, and I'm pain-free like I haven't been in a year. Woot!So now I don't need massages anymore! Just joking. Of course I do. The muscle work is still beneficial, and, as I've said, for me as for many if not most, getting massages was never completely about the muscle work anyway. In fact, I think much of the intramural argument over what a therapist should or shouldn't do during therapeutic massage comes down to the fact that many therapists (and clients) just do not grasp that fact. In arguments between therapists over draping, technique, the significance (or lack thereof) of erections, etc. I often think this is the crux of the matter. Those who see the muscle work as the primary function of massage, or are uncomfortable with the fact that aspects of massage may indeed go beyond the muscle work are going to have issues with those who do grasp this. This one was a somewhat rambling comment, but I think it may be helpful to someone sometime and it adds context for the next one below which relates my massage experience to my original since I opened this thread.
For the last 4 years or so when I first started getting massages until now, my main concern was glutes because I work a desk job and 90% of the time I just wanted muscle work on those areas for relief. So up until now I've mainly scored a massage based on the glute work for that reason, and also because many therapists don't seem to work the glutes much. Or maybe its because they hold that in reserve for return clients when they see that's what you want. In any case my main therapists glute massages seemed to get better and better over the time I've been a client, and she's a particularly good as deep muscle work too. To me up until now, good glute massage = good massage, and less than great glute massage = less than great massage.But in the last year I've learned the hard way that no amount of muscle therapy or working out (I'm quite fit) can counteract what happens from sitting too long every day. I've learned that you can't climb out of the hole you dug for yourself all day no matter what you do. I turned fifty recently and my body can't take what I now know is abuse anymore. In the last year I found I increasingly had to visit a chiropractor, and it got to the point where I'd have to go every 3 weeks. I asked my chiro why he thought I needed the frequent adjustments that I never needed before, and he said the reason was that I just sit too much. He said to get up and stretch every thirty minutes. But after trying to do this I suddenly had an epiphany and decided this was merely a half-way measure, and I went one better and got a standing workstation and completely remade my work and home habits, which I came to see were simply killing my back. I sit to relax my back now instead of standing to stretch. I'm frequently moving and it works for me since I'm a naturally restless person, but when sitting and concentrating post-epiphany I realized that I tend to turn into a pretzel and stop breathing. Now I rotate between a handful of positions throughout the day, some of which are relaxing back stretches that seem natural. Now I have the normal healthy back I always had before, and I'm pain-free like I haven't been in a year. Woot!So now I don't need massages anymore! Just joking. Of course I do. The muscle work is still beneficial, and, as I've said, for me as for many if not most, getting massages was never completely about the muscle work anyway. In fact, I think much of the intramural argument over what a therapist should or shouldn't do during therapeutic massage comes down to the fact that many therapists (and clients) just do not grasp that fact. In arguments between therapists over draping, technique, the significance (or lack thereof) of erections, etc. I often think this is the crux of the matter. Those who see the muscle work as the primary function of massage, or are uncomfortable with the fact that aspects of massage may indeed go beyond the muscle work are going to have issues with those who do grasp this. This one was a somewhat rambling comment, but I think it may be helpful to someone sometime and it adds context for the next one below which relates my massage experience to my original since I opened this thread.
Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:30 pm
pueppi
ย
Post subject:ย
Re: What requests are *appropriate*?
ย
jbo5 wrote:What prompted my question is that my therapist is out on vacation so I just went to someone else I knew of in the area that is well-respected, and during the massage this therapist worked the upper pecs fairly briefly and it was just very soothing. Then she finished by merely rubbing lightly lengthwise along the sternum.Thank you for your response. Since you have had a therapist provide you with work you liked, all you need to do is approach your therapist with the information - remembering to leave the door open for the possibility that she will not be able to fill that request.You also have the option of utilizing two therapists. You don't have to only see one.I have some clients who move between myself and another therapist, depending on the work they need.
[quote="jbo5"]What prompted my question is that my therapist is out on vacation so I just went to someone else I knew of in the area that is well-respected, and during the massage this therapist worked the upper pecs fairly briefly and it was just very soothing. Then she finished by merely rubbing lightly lengthwise along the sternum.Thank you for your response. Since you have had a therapist provide you with work you liked, all you need to do is approach your therapist with the information - remembering to leave the door open for the possibility that she will not be able to fill that request.You also have the option of utilizing two therapists. You don't have to only see one.I have some clients who move between myself and another therapist, depending on the work they need.
Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:18 am
jbo5
ย
Post subject:ย
Re: What requests are *appropriate*?
ย
Oops, I missed that section. I understand I should have posted there, but I do appreciate the suggestions, and I'll give some brief answer so as not to leave this one hanging.No, I've not had "sternal work" as you are describing it here. I picked up the term by reading this forum, but merely assumed it meant any sort of treatment of the sternum. So I'm not sure I want sternal work as I see it is described here or not.What prompted my question is that my therapist is out on vacation so I just went to someone else I knew of in the area that is well-respected, and during the massage this therapist worked the upper pecs fairly briefly and it was just very soothing. Then she finished by merely rubbing lightly lengthwise along the sternum. I guess it is a little embarrassing to say, but this light work on the chest was so soothing it was nearly hypnotic. I just exhaled more or less involuntarily in deep relaxation and I felt almost as if my eyes could have rolled back in my head. I just felt so peaceful it was very surprising, yet wonderful. Nothing erotic I can assure you, and I don't seek anything of the sort from therapeutic massage. Maybe it was just because it was a new sensation. I don't know.Though I'm not a therapist I'm a keen observer, and it seems to me I'm learning that there are three components to massage. 1) The firmer muscle work of what is often called deep tissue massage; 2) the relaxation brought about by the friction on the skin of what is often called relaxation or maybe Swedish massage; and 3) touch therapy. I think a massage can incorporate all three in varying degrees, and usually does. It seems to me now possibly I experienced more of 3 than I normally do perhaps, or maybe I can receive more of it through the chest (since I think my normal therapist has a nice touch.) That's a guess. Not sure if that sounds overly cosmic or mystical to folks here, but there you go.I'll try some form of the respectful request of my normal therapist next time I go. I can post my experience if you wish, but I apologize for posting in the wrong section.BTW, last night I read some of posts in other threads where male therapists seemed to be miffed that men wouldn't have a male therapist (the rudeness is indefensible of course.) Though as an absolute I'd agree this is very short sighted, but it all depends on what you need from the massage. I find that as time goes on, and life's stresses add up, 2 and 3 are becoming increasingly important to me on an average day. And when it comes to 3, there isn't any way a man can match a woman's touch. It just isn't possible. I wonder if some of the male therapists who expressed themselves on this gender issue might not have fully appreciated the interplay of these aspects.
Oops, I missed that section. I understand I should have posted there, but I do appreciate the suggestions, and I'll give some brief answer so as not to leave this one hanging.No, I've not had "sternal work" as you are describing it here. I picked up the term by reading this forum, but merely assumed it meant any sort of treatment of the sternum. So I'm not sure I want sternal work as I see it is described here or not.What prompted my question is that my therapist is out on vacation so I just went to someone else I knew of in the area that is well-respected, and during the massage this therapist worked the upper pecs fairly briefly and it was just very soothing. Then she finished by merely rubbing lightly lengthwise along the sternum. I guess it is a little embarrassing to say, but this light work on the chest was so soothing it was nearly hypnotic. I just exhaled more or less involuntarily in deep relaxation and I felt almost as if my eyes could have rolled back in my head. I just felt so peaceful it was very surprising, yet wonderful. Nothing erotic I can assure you, and I don't seek anything of the sort from therapeutic massage. Maybe it was just because it was a new sensation. I don't know.Though I'm not a therapist I'm a keen observer, and it seems to me I'm learning that there are three components to massage. 1) The firmer muscle work of what is often called deep tissue massage; 2) the relaxation brought about by the friction on the skin of what is often called relaxation or maybe Swedish massage; and 3) touch therapy. I think a massage can incorporate all three in varying degrees, and usually does. It seems to me now possibly I experienced more of 3 than I normally do perhaps, or maybe I can receive more of it through the chest (since I think my normal therapist has a nice touch.) That's a guess. Not sure if that sounds overly cosmic or mystical to folks here, but there you go.I'll try some form of the respectful request of my normal therapist next time I go. I can post my experience if you wish, but I apologize for posting in the wrong section.BTW, last night I read some of posts in other threads where male therapists seemed to be miffed that men wouldn't have a male therapist (the rudeness is indefensible of course.) Though as an absolute I'd agree this is very short sighted, but it all depends on what you need from the massage. I find that as time goes on, and life's stresses add up, 2 and 3 are becoming increasingly important to me on an average day. And when it comes to 3, there isn't any way a man can match a woman's touch. It just isn't possible. I wonder if some of the male therapists who expressed themselves on this gender issue might not have fully appreciated the interplay of these aspects.
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:24 pm
riversinger
ย
Post subject:ย
Re: What requests are *appropriate*?
ย
Might I inquire as to whether you've had sternal work before & what you hope to accomplish with it? Keep in mind that the entire ribcage area is affected by many issues - and if you're looking for work which might free up the breathing/asthma conditions, etc. then it may be very helpful for this. Beyond that if you're dealing with tension/tightness through the chest you may also want to look into exercises that will open up the ribcage for you as well.
Might I inquire as to whether you've had sternal work before & what you hope to accomplish with it? Keep in mind that the entire ribcage area is affected by many issues - and if you're looking for work which might free up the breathing/asthma conditions, etc. then it may be very helpful for this. Beyond that if you're dealing with tension/tightness through the chest you may also want to look into exercises that will open up the ribcage for you as well.
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:31 am
pueppi
ย
Post subject:ย
Re: What requests are *appropriate*?
ย
Sternal work would be inappropriate to ask about, if the client was hoping to get their jollies out of it in some fashion. Otherwise, it would not be inappropriate.If you have had sternal work before, then you will be aware of what the work feels like. However, not all therapists provide sternal work and some of the work can be too challenging for a new therapists or some therapists' current level of training. I do not prvide much sternal work, unless asked or due to a particular complaint that a client is wanting to work on which may need this kind of work. Many clients don't like it, as it can be uncomfortable at times, depending on the client and the nature of the session. Therefore, I am judicious as to who I use these techniques on.I believe that many therapists gravitate to using a general pattern for their sessions, and create the individuality of the sessions based on the client needs, requests and expectations. If you have not been communicating with the therapist up to this point, she may be using a standard framework which can be altered from session to session as you ask for more specific work.A way to break the ice: "I was wondering if you were trained in sternal work? I know some people do and some people don't. But I have seen a therapist in the past who did, and it seemed to help me relax. What do you think?"Please let us know how it goes.For future reference, client posts are better directed to this section of the forums.10/04/11: Correction for serious typo.
Sternal work would be inappropriate to ask about, [i][b]if[/b][/i] the client was hoping to get their jollies out of it in some fashion. Otherwise, it would not be inappropriate.If you have had sternal work before, then you will be aware of what the work feels like. However, not all therapists provide sternal work and some of the work can be too challenging for a new therapists or some therapists' current level of training. I do not prvide much sternal work, unless asked or due to a particular complaint that a client is wanting to work on which may need this kind of work. Many clients don't like it, as it can be uncomfortable at times, depending on the client and the nature of the session. Therefore, I am judicious as to who I use these techniques on.I believe that many therapists gravitate to using a general pattern for their sessions, and create the individuality of the sessions based on the client needs, requests and expectations. If you have not been communicating with the therapist up to this point, she may be using a standard framework which can be altered from session to session as you ask for more specific work.A way to break the ice: "[color=#400080][i]I was wondering if you were trained in sternal work? I know some people do and some people don't. But I have seen a therapist in the past who did, and it seemed to help me relax. What do you think?[/i][/color]"Please let us know how it goes.For future reference, client posts are better directed to [url=http://www.massageplanet.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=9][b]this section[/b][/url] of the forums.[size=85]10/04/11: Correction for serious typo. :lipsaresealed:[/size]
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:37 am
RowanB
ย
Post subject:ย
Re: What requests are *appropriate*?
ย
It's always ok to ask for what you want, as long as it is not sexual in nature. Having your sternum worked is a perfectly reasonable request.
It's always ok to ask for what you want, as long as it is not sexual in nature. Having your sternum worked is a perfectly reasonable request.
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:49 am
jbo5
ย
Post subject:ย
What requests are *appropriate*?
ย
I'm not a practitioner, but I hope it is ok that I post. I'm a man that loves getting massages, but am somewhat new to it and somewhat confused as to etiquette and such. I found a therapist I am comfortable with that does a great job for relaxation and muscle therapy a couple of years ago that I've been going to since then. It really has improved my health a lot. I strive to be as respectful as possible, arrive on time, and tip well, etc. I want to be the model client, and actually think I am. Even though I feel I know my therapist pretty well, or maybe because of it, I'm still still somewhat squeamish about making a therapy faux-pas that would make a therapist uncomfortable, or mark me as some sort of weirdo. She does such a really great job overall, but I have learned that each therapist just has their own way so I'm not sure if I should ask for her to hit an area she doesn't do. The only area I'd like her to hit that she doesn't is the sternum. I think I'd find it very calming. Would it be inappropriate to ask for this? I've noticed that many therapists leave the chest totally draped and never go past the shoulders, which is more or less what my therapist does. She works the glutes very well, one of the reasons I go to her. So, to sum up, is it better to just enjoy the excellent job my therapist does or would it be a good idea to try to make it slightly better by asking for something she doesn't normally do? By trying to make something better will I ruin a good thing? If she doesn't hit the chest at all, is that a clear signal she doesn't want to? The last thing I want to do is make her uncomfortable. Advice?
I'm not a practitioner, but I hope it is ok that I post. I'm a man that loves getting massages, but am somewhat new to it and somewhat confused as to etiquette and such. I found a therapist I am comfortable with that does a great job for relaxation and muscle therapy a couple of years ago that I've been going to since then. It really has improved my health a lot. I strive to be as respectful as possible, arrive on time, and tip well, etc. I want to be the model client, and actually think I am. Even though I feel I know my therapist pretty well, or maybe because of it, I'm still still somewhat squeamish about making a therapy faux-pas that would make a therapist uncomfortable, or mark me as some sort of weirdo. She does such a really great job overall, but I have learned that each therapist just has their own way so I'm not sure if I should ask for her to hit an area she doesn't do. The only area I'd like her to hit that she doesn't is the sternum. I think I'd find it very calming. Would it be inappropriate to ask for this? I've noticed that many therapists leave the chest totally draped and never go past the shoulders, which is more or less what my therapist does. She works the glutes very well, one of the reasons I go to her. So, to sum up, is it better to just enjoy the excellent job my therapist does or would it be a good idea to try to make it slightly better by asking for something she doesn't normally do? By trying to make something better will I ruin a good thing? If she doesn't hit the chest at all, is that a clear signal she doesn't want to? The last thing I want to do is make her uncomfortable. Advice?
Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 10:29 pm
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I believe your recent string of posts takes us full circle as to what you came here for originally:
jbo5 said:
It appears you have become quite comfortable with massage etiquette, and have now found three therapists who are able to provide different types of sessions you may be looking for. You have also made it abundantly clear that you are now able to talk "freely" with a therapist.
You must understand that as MT's we see a lot over the years and we become well versed in dealing with wolves in sheeps clothing. Certain phrasing tends to bring about concern. If you don't want to be seen in that light, I suggest you don't mention things like:
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Topic review - What requests are *appropriate*?
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riversinger
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Re: What requests are *appropriate*?
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I'm with you Pete. Gotta appreciate how those of us who have been on the forum for years now, as well as in the business for over 20+ years, can be judged by someone who has just recently begun posting here regarding how many of us there are, as well as our level of helpfulness & expertise. Never mind the posts they've chosen to make and what their level of expectation is, much less how much they're really concerned about offending any practitioners...Just saying...
:iagree: I'm with you Pete. Gotta appreciate how those of us who have been on the forum for years now, as well as in the business for over 20+ years, can be judged by someone who has just recently begun posting here regarding how many of us there are, as well as our level of helpfulness & expertise. Never mind the posts they've chosen to make and what their level of expectation is, much less how much they're really concerned about offending any practitioners...Just saying...
Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 4:53 pm
pueppi
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Re: What requests are *appropriate*?
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peacenut wrote::D Thank you Pete. You said it well.
[quote="peacenut"]:D Thank you Pete. You said it well.[/quote] :iagree:
Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 4:19 pm
peacenut
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Re: What requests are *appropriate*?
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Thank you Pete. You said it well.
:D Thank you Pete. You said it well.
Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:05 pm
Pete
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Re: What requests are *appropriate*?
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1969libertine wrote:jbo5 - if you write to this forum as a male client, you are pretty much assumed to be a creep. It's not that you are male or a male client that made some posters view you as creepy and you know that. But, if you need clarification as to what statements you made that set off red flags, here they are in bold:1969libertine wrote:I was lying on my back while she massaged my hands and arms. As she was holding my arm doing her thing, my fingers brushed against her breast. I assumed it was incidental and spent the next minute trying to fight off an erection. After my hands, she moved behind me and started on my neck. She must have been leaning over me, because I could feel her necklace dangling against my forehead. Then I felt what I'm pretty sure were her breasts grazing against the top of my forehead, several times. I'm only 95% sure because I kept my eyes closed, but what else could it be? Anyway, that gave me a full erection that lasted a couple of minutes. That didn't seem to bother her as she was especially warm with me afterwards.My question - was all this incidental? I'd be inclined to dismiss it as such, but neither of these things has ever happened to me during a massage before, and she's a veteran pro who knows her way around a massage table. Historically, this forum has attracted numerous "trolls" - posters whose sole purpose in posting was to gain some excitement by talking about sexual aspects of massage and most of those threads involve discussions about erections. As a board, these discussions are strongly discouraged as those of us who are long-term participants of this forum and professional Massage Therapists have long since tired of these topics to the degree where we, as a forum, have felt it necessary to place not one but TWO separate threads at the top of the topic list for this section detailing what is and is not acceptable to have posted in this section of the board. For your convenience I will link to both of those threads and if you have not already done so, please read them:Please Read Before You Post - Client SectionClient FAQs: Please Read Before PostingFWIW, I am not accusing YOU of being a troll per se, just stating my opinion of how/why you may have been viewed as and treated as one in the context of your "Inappropriate Contact" topic.Quote:From what I can tell, it's a very small group of therapists that hang out here, and they are by no means representative of the profession.Yes, compared to the massage profession as a whole, we are just a small and random sampling of our profession. No one here has ever tried to claim that we represent a majority of the profession. Quote:And, as you've seen, they are not at all helpful. That truly is a matter of opinion, which you are entitled to. However, I would argue that your experience is not necessarily representative of this board. I would also caution that whenever you post a question on ANY internet forum, you should be prepared for a wide variety of responses, some of which you may not like. Quote:Just talk to your therapist, ask for what you want, and don't worry about offending her.If you're not someone who worries about offending massage therapists, why didn't you just ask YOUR massage therapist your question directly (ie: Your breasts hit my forehead, what's that about?") rather than post to an internet forum asking us in essence "what's going on in my massage therapist's head?" Also, if you are truly not worried about offending us, why should we be concerned that we have offended you?
[quote="1969libertine"]jbo5 - if you write to this forum as a male client, you are pretty much assumed to be a creep. [/quote]It's not that you are male or a male client that made some posters view you as creepy and you know that. But, if you need clarification as to what statements you made that set off red flags, here they are in bold:[quote="1969libertine"]I was lying on my back while she massaged my hands and arms. As she was holding my arm doing her thing, [b]my fingers brushed against her breast[/b]. I assumed it was incidental and[b] spent the next minute trying to fight off an erection[/b]. After my hands, she moved behind me and started on my neck. She must have been leaning over me, because I could feel her necklace dangling against my forehead. [b]Then I felt what I'm pretty sure were her breasts grazing against the top of my forehead, several times.[/b] I'm only 95% sure because I kept my eyes closed, but what else could it be? Anyway, [b]that gave me a full erection that lasted a couple of minutes. That didn't seem to bother her as she was especially warm with me afterwards.[/b]My question - was all this incidental? I'd be inclined to dismiss it as such, but neither of these things has ever happened to me during a massage before, and she's a veteran pro who knows her way around a massage table. [/quote]Historically, this forum has attracted numerous "trolls" - posters whose sole purpose in posting was to gain some excitement by talking about sexual aspects of massage and most of those threads involve discussions about erections. As a board, these discussions are strongly discouraged as those of us who are long-term participants of this forum and professional Massage Therapists have long since tired of these topics to the degree where we, as a forum, have felt it necessary to place not one but TWO separate threads at the top of the topic list for this section detailing what is and is not acceptable to have posted in this section of the board. For your convenience I will link to both of those threads and if you have not already done so, please read them:[url=http://massageplanet.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=395#p3326]Please Read Before You Post - Client Section[/url][url=http://massageplanet.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=10993]Client FAQs: Please Read Before Posting[/url]FWIW, I am not accusing YOU of being a troll per se, just stating my opinion of how/why you may have been viewed as and treated as one in the context of your "Inappropriate Contact" topic.[quote]From what I can tell, it's a very small group of therapists that hang out here, and they are by no means representative of the profession.[/quote]Yes, compared to the massage profession as a whole, we are just a small and random sampling of our profession. No one here has ever tried to claim that we represent a majority of the profession. [quote]And, as you've seen, they are not at all helpful. [/quote]That truly is a matter of opinion, which you are entitled to. However, I would argue that your experience is not necessarily representative of this board. I would also caution that whenever you post a question on ANY internet forum, you should be prepared for a wide variety of responses, some of which you may not like. [quote]Just talk to your therapist, ask for what you want, and [b]don't worry about offending her.[/b][/quote]If you're not someone who worries about offending massage therapists, why didn't you just ask YOUR massage therapist your question directly (ie: Your breasts hit my forehead, what's that about?") rather than post to an internet forum asking us in essence "what's going on in my massage therapist's head?" Also, if you are truly not worried about offending us, why should we be concerned that we have offended you?
Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:10 am
pueppi
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Re: What requests are *appropriate*?
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1969libertine wrote:jbo5 - if you write to this forum as a male client, you are pretty much assumed to be a creep. From what I can tell, it's a very small group of therapists that hang out here, and they are by no means representative of the profession. And, as you've seen, they are not at all helpful. Most of the therapists on this forum are seasoned verterans, so you are probably correct, they may not be representative of the profession in regard to an online venue. But what really strikes me, is that this is a strange post to make, coming from someone who just recently wrote:1969libertine wrote:It seems your profession has to fend off a good number of lonely, delusional, or entitled men with unrealistic expectations, so I appreciate your taking me at my word and not tossing me into that bucket.
[quote="1969libertine"]jbo5 - if you write to this forum as a male client, you are pretty much assumed to be a creep. From what I can tell, it's a very small group of therapists that hang out here, and they are by no means representative of the profession. And, as you've seen, they are not at all helpful. [/quote]Most of the therapists on this forum are seasoned verterans, so you are probably correct, they may not be representative of the profession in regard to an online venue. But what really strikes me, is that this is a strange post to make, coming from someone who just recently wrote:[quote="[url=http://www.massageplanet.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=33171&start=0]1969libertine[/url]"]It seems your profession has to fend off a good number of lonely, delusional, or entitled men with unrealistic expectations, so I appreciate your taking me at my word and not tossing me into that bucket. [/quote]
Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:32 pm
1969libertine
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Re: What requests are *appropriate*?
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jbo5 - if you write to this forum as a male client, you are pretty much assumed to be a creep. From what I can tell, it's a very small group of therapists that hang out here, and they are by no means representative of the profession. And, as you've seen, they are not at all helpful. Just talk to your therapist, ask for what you want, and don't worry about offending her. If she won't rub your sternum, find someone who will.Best of luck.
jbo5 - if you write to this forum as a male client, you are pretty much assumed to be a creep. From what I can tell, it's a very small group of therapists that hang out here, and they are by no means representative of the profession. And, as you've seen, they are not at all helpful. Just talk to your therapist, ask for what you want, and don't worry about offending her. If she won't rub your sternum, find someone who will.Best of luck.
Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:08 pm
pueppi
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Re: What requests are *appropriate*?
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jbo5 wrote:... and tipped well demonstrating that I hold a decent job. I consider myself fortunate to live in a time and place where people study such things that they can care for me, and I'm as grateful as I can be and wish them to feel it.You don't need to demostrate to anyone that you hold a decent job. People come to us from all walks of life. Some of them save up for weeks to see us, others can throw their money away like it's going out of style. There is no need to tell us on a forum that you are talking about your wife, family, community, etc., in your sessions. If you didn't think about it until now, even questionable clients can (and will) talk about and do such things. So, I am not sure why this is so important for you to come back to. Great tips do not "a-great-client-make". They are only a bonus.jbo5 wrote:This is not a massage session people! I used rubmaps to learn whether it was a shady place, and I learned it wasn't and went because of *that*. And you are grossly mistaken if you are implying that supposed offending phrase is why the person called moderator imputed creepness to me. This is a public forum, and because we are therapists, we are going to respond to what you put out there for us to read. If it gets a little emotionally charged, then so be it. This may not be a massage session, but it certainly makes sense for us to address client and hobbyist comments when they seem a little out of the norm.It doesn't matter if someone had a "moderator" eforum.xxx or not. On this forum the moderators post as individuals who happen to do behind the scenes work. If they want to "moderate" you, you'll be given that information as a moderated post. There is certainly nothing wrong, in my opinion with JasonE (you really can call him by his screen name) addressing his legitimate concerns with your post.
[quote="jbo5"]... and tipped well demonstrating that I hold a decent job. I consider myself fortunate to live in a time and place where people study such things that they can care for me, and I'm as grateful as I can be and wish them to feel it.[/quote]You don't need to demostrate to anyone that you hold a decent job. People come to us from all walks of life. Some of them save up for weeks to see us, others can throw their money away like it's going out of style. There is no need to tell us on a forum that you are talking about your wife, family, community, etc., in your sessions. If you didn't think about it until now, even questionable clients can ([i]and will[/i]) talk about and do such things. So, I am not sure why this is so important for you to come back to. Great tips do not "a-great-client-make". They are only a bonus.[quote="jbo5"]This is not a massage session people! I used rubmaps to learn whether it was a shady place, and I learned it wasn't and went because of *that*. And you are grossly mistaken if you are implying that supposed offending phrase is why the person called moderator imputed creepness to me. [/quote]This is a public forum, and because we are therapists, we are going to respond to what you put out there for us to read. If it gets a little emotionally charged, then so be it. This may not be a massage session, but it certainly makes sense for us to address client and hobbyist comments when they seem a little out of the norm.It doesn't matter if someone had a "moderator" eforum.xxx or not. On this forum the moderators post as individuals who happen to do behind the scenes work. If they want to "moderate" you, you'll be given that information as a moderated post. There is certainly nothing wrong, in my opinion with JasonE ([i]you really can call him by his screen name[/i]) addressing his legitimate concerns with your post.
Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 11:29 am
shivashiva
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Re: What requests are *appropriate*?
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jbo5 wrote:Do you really think I don't get any of this by now? Spare me the condescending bull manure. I don't know why you bothered with the conciliatory "happened to me too" crap above if it was just a warm-up to remind me again how badly I screwed up. To keep reiterating what has already been said is a bit much.You are now officially a troll.
[quote="jbo5"]Do you really think I don't get any of this by now? Spare me the condescending bull manure. I don't know why you bothered with the conciliatory "happened to me too" crap above if it was just a warm-up to remind me again how badly I screwed up. To keep reiterating what has already been said is a bit much.[/quote]You are now officially a troll.
Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:47 am
jbo5
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Re: What requests are *appropriate*?
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Quote:When you post something online, people don't always read it the way you intended when you typed it. I have also been on the receiving end of suspicion and/or criticism... until I provided additional explanation.Thanks.Quote:The way you phrased some things was very similar to previous posts by known trolls, and that raised some red flags. As a new participant on these forums, the intent and meaning of what you post is subject to greater scrutiny until you have become "known" and somewhat better understood. That is part of the reason that all new MassagePlanetL members are asked to post introductions in the appropriate forum. As people get to know you through discussion, you will notice a change in the responses your posts receive.I don't have a problem with that fact that you wanted someone to work on your chest, but the way you described your search and the massage experiences came across... poorly. Your followup explanations and indignation were most welcome to me.Do you really think I don't get any of this by now? Spare me the condescending bull manure. I don't know why you bothered with the conciliatory "happened to me too" crap above if it was just a warm-up to remind me again how badly I screwed up. To keep reiterating what has already been said is a bit much.
[quote]When you post something online, people don't always read it the way you intended when you typed it. I have also been on the receiving end of suspicion and/or criticism... until I provided additional explanation.[/quote]Thanks.[quote]The way you phrased some things was very similar to previous posts by known trolls, and that raised some red flags. As a new participant on these forums, the intent and meaning of what you post is subject to greater scrutiny until you have become "known" and somewhat better understood. That is part of the reason that all new MassagePlanetL members are asked to post introductions in the appropriate forum. As people get to know you through discussion, you will notice a change in the responses your posts receive.I don't have a problem with that fact that you wanted someone to work on your chest, but the way you described your search and the massage experiences came across... poorly. Your followup explanations and indignation were most welcome to me.[/quote]Do you really think I don't get any of this by now? Spare me the condescending bull manure. I don't know why you bothered with the conciliatory "happened to me too" crap above if it was just a warm-up to remind me again how badly I screwed up. To keep reiterating what has already been said is a bit much.
Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:31 pm
JasonE
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Re: What requests are *appropriate*?
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To jbo5:When you post something online, people don't always read it the way you intended when you typed it. I have also been on the receiving end of suspicion and/or criticism... until I provided additional explanation. The way you phrased some things was very similar to previous posts by known trolls, and that raised some red flags. As a new participant on these forums, the intent and meaning of what you post is subject to greater scrutiny until you have become "known" and somewhat better understood. That is part of the reason that all new MassagePlanetL members are asked to post introductions in the appropriate forum. As people get to know you through discussion, you will notice a change in the responses your posts receive.I don't have a problem with that fact that you wanted someone to work on your chest, but the way you described your search and the massage experiences came across... poorly. Your followup explanations and indignation were most welcome to me.In my opinion, an MT that doesn't do a verbal intake is skipping one of the most important parts of the job. The verbal intake is their opportunity to discover and/or confirm whether you have any contraindications, why you are seeking massage, how your health history and lifestyle contribute to your current need for massage, whether you have any preferences about what you do/don't like, whether you have any particular requests, how long the massage will be, whether it would be appropriate to modify draping/bolstering for your comfort, whether you are on medications that may alter your physiological response to massage, etcetera. A good, detailed intake doesn't have to take a long time when skillfully done, and it can make all the difference between a so-so massage and a great one. Though it's possible to occasionally find an MT who seems to intuitively "understand" your needs, you also know that it's hit-or-miss and may vary from one session to the next. On the other hand, a good MT that is consistently thorough and keeps good notes on your history, needs, and preferences can usually be counted on to deliver great massages over and over again. A good MT should be well acquainted with how to work the abdomen, the glutes, the hip flexors, the chest, the thighs... professionally and effectively. They should know what they are working on and why they are doing it one way instead of another way - and be able to answer the questions you ask about that work (within the limits of their knowledge). Now that you have found some MTs that seem accommodating, you might want to ask them for a chance to discuss what you are looking for before your next massage begins so they can plan the session accordingly. That is more likely to result in the massage you want vs the massage you actually receive.
To jbo5:When you post something online, people don't always read it the way you intended when you typed it. I have also been on the receiving end of suspicion and/or criticism... until I provided additional explanation. The way you phrased some things was very similar to previous posts by known trolls, and that raised some red flags. As a new participant on these forums, the intent and meaning of what you post is subject to greater scrutiny until you have become "known" and somewhat better understood. That is part of the reason that all new MassagePlanetL members are asked to post introductions in the appropriate forum. As people get to know you through discussion, you will notice a change in the responses your posts receive.I don't have a problem with that fact that you wanted someone to work on your chest, but the way you described your search and the massage experiences came across... poorly. Your followup explanations and indignation were most welcome to me.In my opinion, an MT that doesn't do a verbal intake is skipping one of the most important parts of the job. The verbal intake is their opportunity to discover and/or confirm whether you have any contraindications, why you are seeking massage, how your health history and lifestyle contribute to your current need for massage, whether you have any preferences about what you do/don't like, whether you have any particular requests, how long the massage will be, whether it would be appropriate to modify draping/bolstering for your comfort, whether you are on medications that may alter your physiological response to massage, etcetera. A good, detailed intake doesn't have to take a long time when skillfully done, and it can make all the difference between a so-so massage and a great one. Though it's possible to occasionally find an MT who seems to intuitively "understand" your needs, you also know that it's hit-or-miss and may vary from one session to the next. On the other hand, a good MT that is consistently thorough and keeps good notes on your history, needs, and preferences can usually be counted on to deliver great massages over and over again. A good MT should be well acquainted with how to work the abdomen, the glutes, the hip flexors, the chest, the thighs... professionally and effectively. They should know what they are working on and why they are doing it one way instead of another way - and be able to answer the questions you ask about that work (within the limits of their knowledge). Now that you have found some MTs that seem accommodating, you might want to ask them for a chance to discuss what you are looking for before your next massage begins so they can plan the session accordingly. That is more likely to result in the massage you want vs the massage you actually receive. :)
Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:45 pm
jbo5
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Re: What requests are *appropriate*?
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Not to beat this to death, but to finish this off in a way that may help someone sometime, it has been said that I've learned how to talk to massage therapists freely about what I want. Actually it's a bit different. I've since discovered two MTs that seem to know what I wanted at the mere mention at the most. With one I just started to describe how it seemed like I felt an endorphin high in the two days after the previous visit from what I guessed was the brief rubbing of the upper sternum. She quickly volunteered to work the whole chest after I flipped. As I was leaving she volunteered "Next time I'll take time to do your abs." I didn't ask for anything. With the new MT last week as she was stopping I merely said something like "Could you work the front too?", or more likely the less direct "Do you ever work the front?" Whatever I said the took it as a request and immediately said "yes" and did so with no hesitation whatever and worked that area quite skillfully that showed much practice. My normal MT doesn't have that same cheerful willingness, though she's great with muscles.So I think the takeaway is that you probably need an MT that likes to receive the same thing that you do, and knows what you want at the mere mention at most. I suppose some special empathetic type who doesn't require this might do, but I don't know. The MT that candidly related to me that she craved a massage when it was time for hers was a revealing moment. I think the effectiveness of verbal communication may actually be more limited than commonly thought when it comes to massage.
Not to beat this to death, but to finish this off in a way that may help someone sometime, it has been said that I've learned how to talk to massage therapists freely about what I want. Actually it's a bit different. I've since discovered two MTs that seem to know what I wanted at the mere mention at the most. With one I just started to describe how it seemed like I felt an endorphin high in the two days after the previous visit from what I guessed was the brief rubbing of the upper sternum. She quickly volunteered to work the whole chest after I flipped. As I was leaving she volunteered "Next time I'll take time to do your abs." I didn't ask for anything. With the new MT last week as she was stopping I merely said something like "Could you work the front too?", or more likely the less direct "Do you ever work the front?" Whatever I said the took it as a request and immediately said "yes" and did so with no hesitation whatever and worked that area quite skillfully that showed much practice. My normal MT doesn't have that same cheerful willingness, though she's great with muscles.So I think the takeaway is that you probably need an MT that likes to receive the same thing that you do, and knows what you want at the mere mention at most. I suppose some special empathetic type who doesn't require this might do, but I don't know. The MT that candidly related to me that she craved a massage when it was time for hers was a revealing moment. I think the effectiveness of verbal communication may actually be more limited than commonly thought when it comes to massage.
Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:34 pm
jbo5
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Re: What requests are *appropriate*?
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Quote:It appears you have become quite comfortable with massage etiquette, and have now found three therapists who are able to provide different types of sessions you may be looking for.Yes, I guess so.Quote:You must understand that as MT's we see a lot over the years and we become well versed in dealing with wolves in sheeps clothing. Certain phrasing tends to bring about concern. If you don't want to be seen in that light, I suggest you don't mention things like:I have all the concern and respect for women MTs who treat men, and I don't expect one to be comfortable with me (though they may be) before I've been there a few times and conversed (I'm a talker during massages if the MT is ok with it and often they talk more than I) about my wife, family life, community, and tipped well demonstrating that I hold a decent job. I consider myself fortunate to live in a time and place where people study such things that they can care for me, and I'm as grateful as I can be and wish them to feel it.But you must realize that people who are anxious to defend their "professionalism" aren't helping themselves to do that by reacting emotionally to words rather than the content of a statement made online where no threat could be present. This is not a massage session people! I used rubmaps to learn whether it was a shady place, and I learned it wasn't and went because of *that*. And you are grossly mistaken if you are implying that supposed offending phrase is why the person called moderator imputed creepness to me. He/she obviously has far more problems with what I said than that. I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but I can see by many of the comments by MTs that many see themselves as muscle therapists, and many seem uncomfortable with what I think are called diaper drapes and Swedish relaxation massage.
[quote]It appears you have become quite comfortable with massage etiquette, and have now found three therapists who are able to provide different types of sessions you may be looking for.[/quote]Yes, I guess so.[quote]You must understand that as MT's we see a lot over the years and we become well versed in dealing with wolves in sheeps clothing. Certain phrasing tends to bring about concern. If you don't want to be seen in that light, I suggest you don't mention things like:[/quote]I have all the concern and respect for women MTs who treat men, and I don't expect one to be comfortable with me (though they may be) before I've been there a few times and conversed (I'm a talker during massages if the MT is ok with it and often they talk more than I) about my wife, family life, community, and tipped well demonstrating that I hold a decent job. I consider myself fortunate to live in a time and place where people study such things that they can care for me, and I'm as grateful as I can be and wish them to feel it.But you must realize that people who are anxious to defend their "professionalism" aren't helping themselves to do that by reacting emotionally to words rather than the content of a statement made online where no threat could be present. This is not a massage session people! I used rubmaps to learn whether it was a shady place, and I learned it wasn't and went because of *that*. And you are grossly mistaken if you are implying that supposed offending phrase is why the person called moderator imputed creepness to me. He/she obviously has far more problems with what I said than that. I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but I can see by many of the comments by MTs that many see themselves as muscle therapists, and many seem uncomfortable with what I think are called diaper drapes and Swedish relaxation massage.
Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 9:21 pm
pueppi
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Post subject:ย
Re: What requests are *appropriate*?
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jbo5, I believe your recent string of posts takes us full circle as to what you came here for originally:jbo5 wrote: I'm a man that loves getting massages, but am somewhat new to it and somewhat confused as to etiquette and such. So, to sum up, is it better to just enjoy the excellent job my therapist does or would it be a good idea to try to make it slightly better by asking for something she doesn't normally do? Advice?It appears you have become quite comfortable with massage etiquette, and have now found three therapists who are able to provide different types of sessions you may be looking for. You have also made it abundantly clear that you are now able to talk "freely" with a therapist. You must understand that as MT's we see a lot over the years and we become well versed in dealing with wolves in sheeps clothing. Certain phrasing tends to bring about concern. If you don't want to be seen in that light, I suggest you don't mention things like:Quote: I saw in an advertisement recently because it mentioned "hot oil", and also because I saw that in the rubmaps.com listing the perverts--I mean guys--were complaining that it was a "legit" business and didn't provide "extras".
jbo5, I believe your recent string of posts takes us full circle as to what you came here for originally:[quote="jbo5"] I'm a man that loves getting massages, but am somewhat new to it and somewhat confused as to etiquette and such. So, to sum up, is it better to just enjoy the excellent job my therapist does or would it be a good idea to try to make it slightly better by asking for something she doesn't normally do? Advice?[/quote]It appears you have become quite comfortable with massage etiquette, and have now found three therapists who are able to provide different types of sessions you may be looking for. You have also made it abundantly clear that you are now able to talk "freely" with a therapist. You must understand that as MT's we see a lot over the years and we become well versed in dealing with wolves in sheeps clothing. Certain phrasing tends to bring about concern. If you don't want to be seen in that light, I suggest you don't mention things like:[quote] I saw in an advertisement recently because it mentioned "hot oil", and also because I saw that in the rubmaps.com listing the perverts--I mean guys--were complaining that it was a "legit" business and didn't provide "extras".[/quote] :smt017
Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:21 pm
jbo5
ย
Post subject:ย
Re: What requests are *appropriate*?
ย
Ok, I forgot to note the most absurd of your assumptions. You said:Quote:why did you lay there with "minimal coverage" on your genitals and ask for her to do "my front" and offer extra cash?I didn't offer her cash to do anything. She didn't ask for cash. The extended session was at their standard rate. When I called for the appt I said 2 hrs for the appt but when I arrived I could tell the owner thought that might be a bit long. So she said "try 90 and it can be extended if you want." I know some MTS say 2 hours is too much, but I know one of the three I know *prefers* 2 hour appointments. As I said, there was no interview by the MT and that has not been unusual in my experience. So when she was about to stop (I don't have a good grasp of time without clock watching) but hadn't done the chest or abs I thought I'd ask then and she told me (as I had already heard from the owner) that she could but we'd have to extend the session at the rate we both knew it was. The cash I was describing above, if you'd go back and read it, was the tip. As I said, I tipped her afterwards generously at the front desk when I paid. That is the routine followed everywhere I've ever seen. At my usual place (a small place with reasonable prices) I now tip at about 40% of the price. This latest visit in question it was also quite reasonable I thought and I tipped at 50% more because I really did appreciate the work she did. BTW, at the more expensive rates of the larger establishments I could not afford to do this. So as interesting as the salacious version in your mind, but that's what happened.
Ok, I forgot to note the most absurd of your assumptions. You said:[quote]why did you lay there with "minimal coverage" on your genitals and ask for her to do "my front" and offer extra cash?[/quote]I didn't offer her cash to do anything. She didn't ask for cash. The extended session was at their standard rate. When I called for the appt I said 2 hrs for the appt but when I arrived I could tell the owner thought that might be a bit long. So she said "try 90 and it can be extended if you want." I know some MTS say 2 hours is too much, but I know one of the three I know *prefers* 2 hour appointments. As I said, there was no interview by the MT and that has not been unusual in my experience. So when she was about to stop (I don't have a good grasp of time without clock watching) but hadn't done the chest or abs I thought I'd ask then and she told me (as I had already heard from the owner) that she could but we'd have to extend the session at the rate we both knew it was. The cash I was describing above, if you'd go back and read it, was the tip. As I said, I tipped her afterwards generously at the front desk when I paid. That is the routine followed everywhere I've ever seen. At my usual place (a small place with reasonable prices) I now tip at about 40% of the price. This latest visit in question it was also quite reasonable I thought and I tipped at 50% more because I really did appreciate the work she did. BTW, at the more expensive rates of the larger establishments I could not afford to do this. So as interesting as the salacious version in your mind, but that's what happened.
Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:35 am
jbo5
ย
Post subject:ย
Re: What requests are *appropriate*?
ย
Quote:You wanted to find a legitimate massage therapist who would massage your chest and abdomen. Instead of asking the MT who had already done that for you, you went to a web site that advertises and discusses sensual massage parlours.Well I know I posted a lot of text, but I did explain that I asked the MT who had already done that and described her response. I don't know what is professional draping, and I do desire draping --in fact wouldn't accept no draping--but you have to realize until even after my original post I'd never even had any part of my upper body uncovered in the five years or so I've been getting massages. You shouldn't be so suspicious of people. Everyone isn't a creep.I went to the website that speaks of sensual massage because though I wanted to try a hot oil massage, I was concerned that it could be code for something illegitimate. Sorry moderator, but I confirmed that it wasn't (the pervs all said "nothing happening here, but a pretty good massage") the only way there was to do it in advance. You have no reason to insinuate what you did.Quote:Instead of specifying the precise nature of your request during the intake discussion with this "legit" MT so she could plan it as part of the session, why did you lay there with "minimal coverage" on your genitals and ask for her to do "my front" and offer extra cash?Because not all MT's do intake discussions. Of the three MTs I've seen in the last five years, only one has ever done an intake discussion. I rate health professionals on their work, not their interpersonal skills. My main MT is somewhat headstrong and difficult sometimes, but it is just her way and there is a language barrier too as I said. But she's damn good at muscle work and I don't imagine I'll ever find anyone better at that. Until now I mainly wanted the muscle work on my sore glutes and lower back because that was always a big problem for me. Fortunately, as I said, I've diagnosed my bad posture and work habits and corrected now quite successfully, much to my own surprise and in such short order. So in addition to generally not having intake interviews, I didn't desire to have my chest rubbed until now. The only one that did an interview was the one I went to recently when my regular MT was on vacation. When I went back a few weeks ago I told her how great it was the last time when she just rubbed my sternum--as I've already related--she said "oh, ok. The chest isn't a part of the normal routine, but I'll do that this time". No hesitation whatever, and obviously no problem or hesitation in working the chest. And when I was leaving she said "next time I'll do your abs." I didn't even ask. That might have been a bit of salesmanship, but it was refreshing. This MT has qualifications as long as your arm--and she's pretty expensive--but she communicates so well and seems to get me. I think she just knows I'd like it based on how I have responded so far to what she's done. The first time I went to her she mentioned that she gets massages regularly and craves them if she goes too long between sessions. I immediately thought "here's someone who gets it." Quote:You go on and on about how this "totally professional" MT rubbed your nipples.Are you aware that rubbing nipples is not considered ethical, and is in direct violation of many massage therapy professional codes of conduct?If you'd read my post you'd know that I do know that. You might also guess that I consider this particular rule fairly arbitrary, and you yourself seem to know that since you say it is against "many" codes of conduct. Funny how you weren't willing to say it is against ALL "professional codes of conduct," which would really give the moral condemnation you wish to imply. But you can't because you know that it IS allowed under a many massage therapy professional codes of conduct. I've heard some MTs (online) say they were taught never to work the abs. As I said, I don't think it was at all stimulatory the way she worked the chest. It wasn't intended that way, and it wasn't received that way. I'm not in favor of criminalizing differences in opinion. Since I posted originally I have learned a lot about how different MTs approach things. So this is my last word and report.
[quote]You wanted to find a legitimate massage therapist who would massage your chest and abdomen. Instead of asking the MT who had already done that for you, you went to a web site that advertises and discusses sensual massage parlours.[/quote]Well I know I posted a lot of text, but I did explain that I asked the MT who had already done that and described her response. I don't know what is professional draping, and I do desire draping --in fact wouldn't accept no draping--but you have to realize until even after my original post I'd never even had any part of my upper body uncovered in the five years or so I've been getting massages. You shouldn't be so suspicious of people. Everyone isn't a creep.I went to the website that speaks of sensual massage because though I wanted to try a hot oil massage, I was concerned that it could be code for something illegitimate. Sorry moderator, but I confirmed that it wasn't (the pervs all said "nothing happening here, but a pretty good massage") the only way there was to do it in advance. You have no reason to insinuate what you did.[quote]Instead of specifying the precise nature of your request during the intake discussion with this "legit" MT so she could plan it as part of the session, why did you lay there with "minimal coverage" on your genitals and ask for her to do "my front" and offer extra cash?[/quote]Because not all MT's do intake discussions. Of the three MTs I've seen in the last five years, only one has ever done an intake discussion. I rate health professionals on their work, not their interpersonal skills. My main MT is somewhat headstrong and difficult sometimes, but it is just her way and there is a language barrier too as I said. But she's damn good at muscle work and I don't imagine I'll ever find anyone better at that. Until now I mainly wanted the muscle work on my sore glutes and lower back because that was always a big problem for me. Fortunately, as I said, I've diagnosed my bad posture and work habits and corrected now quite successfully, much to my own surprise and in such short order. So in addition to generally not having intake interviews, I didn't desire to have my chest rubbed until now. The only one that did an interview was the one I went to recently when my regular MT was on vacation. When I went back a few weeks ago I told her how great it was the last time when she just rubbed my sternum--as I've already related--she said "oh, ok. The chest isn't a part of the normal routine, but I'll do that this time". No hesitation whatever, and obviously no problem or hesitation in working the chest. And when I was leaving she said "next time I'll do your abs." I didn't even ask. That might have been a bit of salesmanship, but it was refreshing. This MT has qualifications as long as your arm--and she's pretty expensive--but she communicates so well and seems to get me. I think she just knows I'd like it based on how I have responded so far to what she's done. The first time I went to her she mentioned that she gets massages regularly and craves them if she goes too long between sessions. I immediately thought "here's someone who gets it." [quote]You go on and on about how this "totally professional" MT rubbed your nipples.Are you aware that rubbing nipples is not considered ethical, and is in direct violation of many massage therapy professional codes of conduct?[/quote]If you'd read my post you'd know that I do know that. You might also guess that I consider this particular rule fairly arbitrary, and you yourself seem to know that since you say it is against "many" codes of conduct. Funny how you weren't willing to say it is against ALL "professional codes of conduct," which would really give the moral condemnation you wish to imply. But you can't because you know that it IS allowed under a many massage therapy professional codes of conduct. I've heard some MTs (online) say they were taught never to work the abs. As I said, I don't think it was at all stimulatory the way she worked the chest. It wasn't intended that way, and it wasn't received that way. I'm not in favor of criminalizing differences in opinion. Since I posted originally I have learned a lot about how different MTs approach things. So this is my last word and report.
Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:27 am
JasonE
ย
Post subject:ย
Re: What requests are *appropriate*?
ย
Quote:I scheduled an appointment yesterday with a more distant massage establishment near Los Angeles (I live in Orange county) I saw in an advertisement recently because it mentioned "hot oil", and also because I saw that in the rubmaps.com listing the perverts--I mean guys--were complaining that it was a "legit" business and didn't provide "extras". LOL. I've never visited a dodgy establishment that does anything illicit. But I wanted to experience a hot oil massage and maybe less squeamishness about draping if possible. Since those that should know declared it "legit" it sounded like the ticket and I made an appointment for Sat morning. So I went there and the only draping they used was a tiny towel for minimal coverage of the butt-crack and genitals after flip. The rooms were warm for the purpose and the table was heated, and it was comfortable even though I get cold easily. A pretty good massage. I wasn't sure if she'd do chest/abs, and when she seemed done I asked if she could do "my front" or some such language indicating my trunk too and she said she could and I said I'd pay for whatever extra time it took. So I could see she wasn't going to do that originally, but she didn't mind at all doing it either.Hmm. Several things about your story don't add up: You wanted to find a legitimate massage therapist who would massage your chest and abdomen. Instead of asking the MT who had already done that for you, you went to a web site that advertises and discusses sensual massage parlours. You wanted less draping -why? This is the first time you've mentioned a desire for less than professional draping. Instead of specifying the precise nature of your request during the intake discussion with this "legit" MT so she could plan it as part of the session, why did you lay there with "minimal coverage" on your genitals and ask for her to do "my front" and offer extra cash?You go on and on about how this "totally professional" MT rubbed your nipples.Are you aware that rubbing nipples is not considered ethical, and is in direct violation of many massage therapy professional codes of conduct?I half expect you to start clamoring for undraped massage next...
[quote]I scheduled an appointment yesterday with a more distant massage establishment near Los Angeles (I live in Orange county) I saw in an advertisement recently because it mentioned "hot oil", and also because [b]I saw that in the rubmaps.com listing[/b] the perverts--I mean guys--were complaining that it was a "legit" business and didn't provide "extras". LOL. I've never visited a dodgy establishment that does anything illicit. But I wanted to experience a hot oil massage [b]and maybe less squeamishness about draping if possible.[/b] Since those that should know declared it "legit" it sounded like the ticket and I made an appointment for Sat morning. So I went there and[b] the only draping they used was a tiny towel for minimal coverage[/b] of the butt-crack and genitals after flip. The rooms were warm for the purpose and the table was heated, and it was comfortable even though I get cold easily. A pretty good massage. I wasn't sure if she'd do chest/abs, and [b]when she seemed done I asked if she could do "my front" or some such language[/b] indicating my trunk too and she said she could and I said [b]I'd pay for whatever extra time it too[/b]k. So I could see [b]she wasn't going to do that originally, but she didn't mind at all doing it either[/b].[/quote]Hmm. Several things about your story don't add up: You wanted to find a legitimate massage therapist who would massage your chest and abdomen. Instead of asking the MT who had already done that for you, you went to a web site that advertises and discusses sensual massage parlours. You wanted less draping -why? This is the first time you've mentioned a desire for less than professional draping. Instead of specifying the precise nature of your request during the intake discussion with this "legit" MT so she could plan it as part of the session, why did you lay there with "minimal coverage" on your genitals and ask for her to do "my front" and offer extra cash?You go on and on about how this "totally professional" MT rubbed your nipples.Are you aware that rubbing nipples is not considered ethical, and is in direct violation of many massage therapy professional codes of conduct?I half expect you to start clamoring for undraped massage next...
Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:31 am
jbo5
ย
Post subject:ย
Re: What requests are *appropriate*?
ย
pueppi: I'm coming to the same conclusion about possibly needing more than one therapist. For example, just in the last week I've decided I need two mechanics, one for stuff I imagine requires complex diagnostics because I recently stumbled across one who seems particularly interested and challenged by those issues, and my normal one for everything else. Maybe it is the same with massage therapists.As I was relating earlier, when I visited the new therapist she lightly rubbed my sternum that was a new experience for me, and it just feel really good. Something I felt even two days later. Perhaps endorphins, but I don't know. It reminded me of an endorphin rush in the days following a run after a long break back back when I used to run. But a funny thing happened just after my normal massage therapist returned from vacation. I had a psoas spasm (diagnosed by my chiropractor) after a workout, um . . . miscalculation. I hadn't yet asked her about the chest or abs. The reason I was squeamish about doing it is that she's the first regular therapist I've ever had, and I wasn't some veteran who knew the normal practice. Additionally, I couldn't help but think that since I'd been seeing her for several years and she never did or offered maybe that was because she wasn't comfortable with it and it would make her uncomfortable to ask. Anyway, when I hobbled in and told her what happened and what the chiropractor said (and he did a "psoas release" via the abdomen) she took the towel down to my waist and worked my abs really well. It felt great. It took a week and a half of psoas stretches at home to make the pain go away, but I saw she knew how to do abs. The next time (only a few days later still recovering) she did the same thing again, and I asked if she'd do the chest too and she did. It felt fabulous and the same thing occurred as with the other therapist: two or three days of feel-good endorphins or whatever it is that is at once relaxing and energizing at the same time. I have no idea if anyone else experiences this, and I have no idea if it is endorphins (if so it probably won't last since one adjusts to it), or has anything to do with chi, chakra, or whatever, but damn it feels good. If it is an endorphin thing then the rush will cease after awhile, but I'd still think that meant something good healthy and good about the activity nonetheless.But in subsequent visits it seems to me that she isn't as willing to do abdominals and/or chest just because I like it as she is if I'm hurt or have some specific problem that requires it. I sense a reluctance now that I'm well. The last thing I'd want to do is make her feel uncomfortable, and yet I definitely want to have chest/abs massaged now that I've experienced this for the reasons I've given. In my analysis, she is a massage therapist that isn't into getting massages herself, and she really doesn't get that it is important to me now. The last thing I want to do is make her uncomfortable, and I have have complete respect for her. When you get to a certain age and place all younger women seem like your daughter. But we'll see how it goes. She unusually talent with deep muscle work in my opinion.Part of trying to figure out how to handle this involves seeing how other therapists work, and in that spirit and on the subject of chest/abs massage I scheduled an appointment yesterday with a more distant massage establishment near Los Angeles (I live in Orange county) I saw in an advertisement recently because it mentioned "hot oil", and also because I saw that in the rubmaps.com listing the perverts--I mean guys--were complaining that it was a "legit" business and didn't provide "extras". LOL. I've never visited a dodgy establishment that does anything illicit. But I wanted to experience a hot oil massage and maybe less squeamishness about draping if possible. Since those that should know declared it "legit" it sounded like the ticket and I made an appointment for Sat morning. So I went there and the only draping they used was a tiny towel for minimal coverage of the butt-crack and genitals after flip. The rooms were warm for the purpose and the table was heated, and it was comfortable even though I get cold easily. A pretty good massage. I wasn't sure if she'd do chest/abs, and when she seemed done I asked if she could do "my front" or some such language indicating my trunk too and she said she could and I said I'd pay for whatever extra time it took. So I could see she wasn't going to do that originally, but she didn't mind at all doing it either.So she did the oil massage on my chest and abs and I have to say it was an other-worldly experience. She just rubbed me all over my trunk with smooth gliding strokes, and it was about at great as I could ever imagine. It was obvious she had no discomfort at all in doing it. Sometimes abs, sometimes sternum, sometimes pecs or ribs and often all of them in long gliding strokes. It was amazing. The surprising thing was that she did not avoid my nipples. I assumed all therapists would, and mine are quite sensitive so I thought I'd never like that in any case if a therapist (or anyone other than a wife or girlfriend) ever did it, but it took me awhile to even realize it. She wasn't massaging my nipples--she was ignoring them and massaging my chest as if I had none. I don't know if local ordinances permit this in this city or not, or if her training was different or not, but the mantra of "avoid the nipples" was certainly not adhered to and to my amazement it was truly great because of the total coverage on the trunk. I thanked her profusely for extending the massage and said how relaxing it was, and afterwards tipped her over 50% of the cost. I'll definitely go back and ask for her. Since I'm no longer having muscle issues, I just wanted a relaxation massage and to see what other therapists did as far as the chest. What a massage it was. During the strokes over my chest and sternum felt like she was touching my soul. I'm sure there will be those who will say this was a "sensual massage" and something improper was done, but my therapist was totally professional and I totally respectful, and I talked freely with both her and the owner at the front desk afterwards.It takes all kinds I guess. Here is a woman who felt violated in some way by a chest massage by another woman, after consenting to it! http://www.yelp.com/biz/f-joseph-smith- ... ill-valley Can you believe it?"She then took her greasy oiled up hands and began to rub my chest, nipples, and stomach in a stroking motion." Her greasy oiled-up hands? The horror! Why would anyone this touchy ever go get a full-body massage in the first place?
pueppi: I'm coming to the same conclusion about possibly needing more than one therapist. For example, just in the last week I've decided I need two mechanics, one for stuff I imagine requires complex diagnostics because I recently stumbled across one who seems particularly interested and challenged by those issues, and my normal one for everything else. Maybe it is the same with massage therapists.As I was relating earlier, when I visited the new therapist she lightly rubbed my sternum that was a new experience for me, and it just feel really good. Something I felt even two days later. Perhaps endorphins, but I don't know. It reminded me of an endorphin rush in the days following a run after a long break back back when I used to run. But a funny thing happened just after my normal massage therapist returned from vacation. I had a psoas spasm (diagnosed by my chiropractor) after a workout, um . . . miscalculation. I hadn't yet asked her about the chest or abs. The reason I was squeamish about doing it is that she's the first regular therapist I've ever had, and I wasn't some veteran who knew the normal practice. Additionally, I couldn't help but think that since I'd been seeing her for several years and she never did or offered maybe that was because she wasn't comfortable with it and it would make her uncomfortable to ask. Anyway, when I hobbled in and told her what happened and what the chiropractor said (and he did a "psoas release" via the abdomen) she took the towel down to my waist and worked my abs really well. It felt great. It took a week and a half of psoas stretches at home to make the pain go away, but I saw she knew how to do abs. The next time (only a few days later still recovering) she did the same thing again, and I asked if she'd do the chest too and she did. It felt fabulous and the same thing occurred as with the other therapist: two or three days of feel-good endorphins or whatever it is that is at once relaxing and energizing at the same time. I have no idea if anyone else experiences this, and I have no idea if it is endorphins (if so it probably won't last since one adjusts to it), or has anything to do with chi, chakra, or whatever, but damn it feels good. If it is an endorphin thing then the rush will cease after awhile, but I'd still think that meant something good healthy and good about the activity nonetheless.But in subsequent visits it seems to me that she isn't as willing to do abdominals and/or chest just because I like it as she is if I'm hurt or have some specific problem that requires it. I sense a reluctance now that I'm well. The last thing I'd want to do is make her feel uncomfortable, and yet I definitely want to have chest/abs massaged now that I've experienced this for the reasons I've given. In my analysis, she is a massage therapist that isn't into getting massages herself, and she really doesn't get that it is important to me now. The last thing I want to do is make her uncomfortable, and I have have complete respect for her. When you get to a certain age and place all younger women seem like your daughter. But we'll see how it goes. She unusually talent with deep muscle work in my opinion.Part of trying to figure out how to handle this involves seeing how other therapists work, and in that spirit and on the subject of chest/abs massage I scheduled an appointment yesterday with a more distant massage establishment near Los Angeles (I live in Orange county) I saw in an advertisement recently because it mentioned "hot oil", and also because I saw that in the rubmaps.com listing the perverts--I mean guys--were complaining that it was a "legit" business and didn't provide "extras". LOL. I've never visited a dodgy establishment that does anything illicit. But I wanted to experience a hot oil massage and maybe less squeamishness about draping if possible. Since those that should know declared it "legit" it sounded like the ticket and I made an appointment for Sat morning. So I went there and the only draping they used was a tiny towel for minimal coverage of the butt-crack and genitals after flip. The rooms were warm for the purpose and the table was heated, and it was comfortable even though I get cold easily. A pretty good massage. I wasn't sure if she'd do chest/abs, and when she seemed done I asked if she could do "my front" or some such language indicating my trunk too and she said she could and I said I'd pay for whatever extra time it took. So I could see she wasn't going to do that originally, but she didn't mind at all doing it either.So she did the oil massage on my chest and abs and I have to say it was an other-worldly experience. She just rubbed me all over my trunk with smooth gliding strokes, and it was about at great as I could ever imagine. It was obvious she had no discomfort at all in doing it. Sometimes abs, sometimes sternum, sometimes pecs or ribs and often all of them in long gliding strokes. It was amazing. The surprising thing was that she did not avoid my nipples. I assumed all therapists would, and mine are quite sensitive so I thought I'd never like that in any case if a therapist (or anyone other than a wife or girlfriend) ever did it, but it took me awhile to even realize it. She wasn't massaging my nipples--she was ignoring them and massaging my chest as if I had none. I don't know if local ordinances permit this in this city or not, or if her training was different or not, but the mantra of "avoid the nipples" was certainly not adhered to and to my amazement it was truly great because of the total coverage on the trunk. I thanked her profusely for extending the massage and said how relaxing it was, and afterwards tipped her over 50% of the cost. I'll definitely go back and ask for her. Since I'm no longer having muscle issues, I just wanted a relaxation massage and to see what other therapists did as far as the chest. What a massage it was. During the strokes over my chest and sternum felt like she was touching my soul. I'm sure there will be those who will say this was a "sensual massage" and something improper was done, but my therapist was totally professional and I totally respectful, and I talked freely with both her and the owner at the front desk afterwards.It takes all kinds I guess. Here is a woman who felt violated in some way by a chest massage by another woman, after consenting to it! http://www.yelp.com/biz/f-joseph-smith-massage-therapy-mill-valley Can you believe it?"She then took her greasy oiled up hands and began to rub my chest, nipples, and stomach in a stroking motion." Her greasy oiled-up hands? The horror! Why would anyone this touchy ever go get a full-body massage in the first place?
Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:44 pm
jbo5
ย
Post subject:ย
Re: What requests are *appropriate*?
ย
For the last 4 years or so when I first started getting massages until now, my main concern was glutes because I work a desk job and 90% of the time I just wanted muscle work on those areas for relief. So up until now I've mainly scored a massage based on the glute work for that reason, and also because many therapists don't seem to work the glutes much. Or maybe its because they hold that in reserve for return clients when they see that's what you want. In any case my main therapists glute massages seemed to get better and better over the time I've been a client, and she's a particularly good as deep muscle work too. To me up until now, good glute massage = good massage, and less than great glute massage = less than great massage.But in the last year I've learned the hard way that no amount of muscle therapy or working out (I'm quite fit) can counteract what happens from sitting too long every day. I've learned that you can't climb out of the hole you dug for yourself all day no matter what you do. I turned fifty recently and my body can't take what I now know is abuse anymore. In the last year I found I increasingly had to visit a chiropractor, and it got to the point where I'd have to go every 3 weeks. I asked my chiro why he thought I needed the frequent adjustments that I never needed before, and he said the reason was that I just sit too much. He said to get up and stretch every thirty minutes. But after trying to do this I suddenly had an epiphany and decided this was merely a half-way measure, and I went one better and got a standing workstation and completely remade my work and home habits, which I came to see were simply killing my back. I sit to relax my back now instead of standing to stretch. I'm frequently moving and it works for me since I'm a naturally restless person, but when sitting and concentrating post-epiphany I realized that I tend to turn into a pretzel and stop breathing. Now I rotate between a handful of positions throughout the day, some of which are relaxing back stretches that seem natural. Now I have the normal healthy back I always had before, and I'm pain-free like I haven't been in a year. Woot!So now I don't need massages anymore! Just joking. Of course I do. The muscle work is still beneficial, and, as I've said, for me as for many if not most, getting massages was never completely about the muscle work anyway. In fact, I think much of the intramural argument over what a therapist should or shouldn't do during therapeutic massage comes down to the fact that many therapists (and clients) just do not grasp that fact. In arguments between therapists over draping, technique, the significance (or lack thereof) of erections, etc. I often think this is the crux of the matter. Those who see the muscle work as the primary function of massage, or are uncomfortable with the fact that aspects of massage may indeed go beyond the muscle work are going to have issues with those who do grasp this. This one was a somewhat rambling comment, but I think it may be helpful to someone sometime and it adds context for the next one below which relates my massage experience to my original since I opened this thread.
For the last 4 years or so when I first started getting massages until now, my main concern was glutes because I work a desk job and 90% of the time I just wanted muscle work on those areas for relief. So up until now I've mainly scored a massage based on the glute work for that reason, and also because many therapists don't seem to work the glutes much. Or maybe its because they hold that in reserve for return clients when they see that's what you want. In any case my main therapists glute massages seemed to get better and better over the time I've been a client, and she's a particularly good as deep muscle work too. To me up until now, good glute massage = good massage, and less than great glute massage = less than great massage.But in the last year I've learned the hard way that no amount of muscle therapy or working out (I'm quite fit) can counteract what happens from sitting too long every day. I've learned that you can't climb out of the hole you dug for yourself all day no matter what you do. I turned fifty recently and my body can't take what I now know is abuse anymore. In the last year I found I increasingly had to visit a chiropractor, and it got to the point where I'd have to go every 3 weeks. I asked my chiro why he thought I needed the frequent adjustments that I never needed before, and he said the reason was that I just sit too much. He said to get up and stretch every thirty minutes. But after trying to do this I suddenly had an epiphany and decided this was merely a half-way measure, and I went one better and got a standing workstation and completely remade my work and home habits, which I came to see were simply killing my back. I sit to relax my back now instead of standing to stretch. I'm frequently moving and it works for me since I'm a naturally restless person, but when sitting and concentrating post-epiphany I realized that I tend to turn into a pretzel and stop breathing. Now I rotate between a handful of positions throughout the day, some of which are relaxing back stretches that seem natural. Now I have the normal healthy back I always had before, and I'm pain-free like I haven't been in a year. Woot!So now I don't need massages anymore! Just joking. Of course I do. The muscle work is still beneficial, and, as I've said, for me as for many if not most, getting massages was never completely about the muscle work anyway. In fact, I think much of the intramural argument over what a therapist should or shouldn't do during therapeutic massage comes down to the fact that many therapists (and clients) just do not grasp that fact. In arguments between therapists over draping, technique, the significance (or lack thereof) of erections, etc. I often think this is the crux of the matter. Those who see the muscle work as the primary function of massage, or are uncomfortable with the fact that aspects of massage may indeed go beyond the muscle work are going to have issues with those who do grasp this. This one was a somewhat rambling comment, but I think it may be helpful to someone sometime and it adds context for the next one below which relates my massage experience to my original since I opened this thread.
Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:30 pm
pueppi
ย
Post subject:ย
Re: What requests are *appropriate*?
ย
jbo5 wrote:What prompted my question is that my therapist is out on vacation so I just went to someone else I knew of in the area that is well-respected, and during the massage this therapist worked the upper pecs fairly briefly and it was just very soothing. Then she finished by merely rubbing lightly lengthwise along the sternum.Thank you for your response. Since you have had a therapist provide you with work you liked, all you need to do is approach your therapist with the information - remembering to leave the door open for the possibility that she will not be able to fill that request.You also have the option of utilizing two therapists. You don't have to only see one.I have some clients who move between myself and another therapist, depending on the work they need.
[quote="jbo5"]What prompted my question is that my therapist is out on vacation so I just went to someone else I knew of in the area that is well-respected, and during the massage this therapist worked the upper pecs fairly briefly and it was just very soothing. Then she finished by merely rubbing lightly lengthwise along the sternum.Thank you for your response. Since you have had a therapist provide you with work you liked, all you need to do is approach your therapist with the information - remembering to leave the door open for the possibility that she will not be able to fill that request.You also have the option of utilizing two therapists. You don't have to only see one.I have some clients who move between myself and another therapist, depending on the work they need.
Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:18 am
jbo5
ย
Post subject:ย
Re: What requests are *appropriate*?
ย
Oops, I missed that section. I understand I should have posted there, but I do appreciate the suggestions, and I'll give some brief answer so as not to leave this one hanging.No, I've not had "sternal work" as you are describing it here. I picked up the term by reading this forum, but merely assumed it meant any sort of treatment of the sternum. So I'm not sure I want sternal work as I see it is described here or not.What prompted my question is that my therapist is out on vacation so I just went to someone else I knew of in the area that is well-respected, and during the massage this therapist worked the upper pecs fairly briefly and it was just very soothing. Then she finished by merely rubbing lightly lengthwise along the sternum. I guess it is a little embarrassing to say, but this light work on the chest was so soothing it was nearly hypnotic. I just exhaled more or less involuntarily in deep relaxation and I felt almost as if my eyes could have rolled back in my head. I just felt so peaceful it was very surprising, yet wonderful. Nothing erotic I can assure you, and I don't seek anything of the sort from therapeutic massage. Maybe it was just because it was a new sensation. I don't know.Though I'm not a therapist I'm a keen observer, and it seems to me I'm learning that there are three components to massage. 1) The firmer muscle work of what is often called deep tissue massage; 2) the relaxation brought about by the friction on the skin of what is often called relaxation or maybe Swedish massage; and 3) touch therapy. I think a massage can incorporate all three in varying degrees, and usually does. It seems to me now possibly I experienced more of 3 than I normally do perhaps, or maybe I can receive more of it through the chest (since I think my normal therapist has a nice touch.) That's a guess. Not sure if that sounds overly cosmic or mystical to folks here, but there you go.I'll try some form of the respectful request of my normal therapist next time I go. I can post my experience if you wish, but I apologize for posting in the wrong section.BTW, last night I read some of posts in other threads where male therapists seemed to be miffed that men wouldn't have a male therapist (the rudeness is indefensible of course.) Though as an absolute I'd agree this is very short sighted, but it all depends on what you need from the massage. I find that as time goes on, and life's stresses add up, 2 and 3 are becoming increasingly important to me on an average day. And when it comes to 3, there isn't any way a man can match a woman's touch. It just isn't possible. I wonder if some of the male therapists who expressed themselves on this gender issue might not have fully appreciated the interplay of these aspects.
Oops, I missed that section. I understand I should have posted there, but I do appreciate the suggestions, and I'll give some brief answer so as not to leave this one hanging.No, I've not had "sternal work" as you are describing it here. I picked up the term by reading this forum, but merely assumed it meant any sort of treatment of the sternum. So I'm not sure I want sternal work as I see it is described here or not.What prompted my question is that my therapist is out on vacation so I just went to someone else I knew of in the area that is well-respected, and during the massage this therapist worked the upper pecs fairly briefly and it was just very soothing. Then she finished by merely rubbing lightly lengthwise along the sternum. I guess it is a little embarrassing to say, but this light work on the chest was so soothing it was nearly hypnotic. I just exhaled more or less involuntarily in deep relaxation and I felt almost as if my eyes could have rolled back in my head. I just felt so peaceful it was very surprising, yet wonderful. Nothing erotic I can assure you, and I don't seek anything of the sort from therapeutic massage. Maybe it was just because it was a new sensation. I don't know.Though I'm not a therapist I'm a keen observer, and it seems to me I'm learning that there are three components to massage. 1) The firmer muscle work of what is often called deep tissue massage; 2) the relaxation brought about by the friction on the skin of what is often called relaxation or maybe Swedish massage; and 3) touch therapy. I think a massage can incorporate all three in varying degrees, and usually does. It seems to me now possibly I experienced more of 3 than I normally do perhaps, or maybe I can receive more of it through the chest (since I think my normal therapist has a nice touch.) That's a guess. Not sure if that sounds overly cosmic or mystical to folks here, but there you go.I'll try some form of the respectful request of my normal therapist next time I go. I can post my experience if you wish, but I apologize for posting in the wrong section.BTW, last night I read some of posts in other threads where male therapists seemed to be miffed that men wouldn't have a male therapist (the rudeness is indefensible of course.) Though as an absolute I'd agree this is very short sighted, but it all depends on what you need from the massage. I find that as time goes on, and life's stresses add up, 2 and 3 are becoming increasingly important to me on an average day. And when it comes to 3, there isn't any way a man can match a woman's touch. It just isn't possible. I wonder if some of the male therapists who expressed themselves on this gender issue might not have fully appreciated the interplay of these aspects.
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:24 pm
riversinger
ย
Post subject:ย
Re: What requests are *appropriate*?
ย
Might I inquire as to whether you've had sternal work before & what you hope to accomplish with it? Keep in mind that the entire ribcage area is affected by many issues - and if you're looking for work which might free up the breathing/asthma conditions, etc. then it may be very helpful for this. Beyond that if you're dealing with tension/tightness through the chest you may also want to look into exercises that will open up the ribcage for you as well.
Might I inquire as to whether you've had sternal work before & what you hope to accomplish with it? Keep in mind that the entire ribcage area is affected by many issues - and if you're looking for work which might free up the breathing/asthma conditions, etc. then it may be very helpful for this. Beyond that if you're dealing with tension/tightness through the chest you may also want to look into exercises that will open up the ribcage for you as well.
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:31 am
pueppi
ย
Post subject:ย
Re: What requests are *appropriate*?
ย
Sternal work would be inappropriate to ask about, if the client was hoping to get their jollies out of it in some fashion. Otherwise, it would not be inappropriate.If you have had sternal work before, then you will be aware of what the work feels like. However, not all therapists provide sternal work and some of the work can be too challenging for a new therapists or some therapists' current level of training. I do not prvide much sternal work, unless asked or due to a particular complaint that a client is wanting to work on which may need this kind of work. Many clients don't like it, as it can be uncomfortable at times, depending on the client and the nature of the session. Therefore, I am judicious as to who I use these techniques on.I believe that many therapists gravitate to using a general pattern for their sessions, and create the individuality of the sessions based on the client needs, requests and expectations. If you have not been communicating with the therapist up to this point, she may be using a standard framework which can be altered from session to session as you ask for more specific work.A way to break the ice: "I was wondering if you were trained in sternal work? I know some people do and some people don't. But I have seen a therapist in the past who did, and it seemed to help me relax. What do you think?"Please let us know how it goes.For future reference, client posts are better directed to this section of the forums.10/04/11: Correction for serious typo.
Sternal work would be inappropriate to ask about, [i][b]if[/b][/i] the client was hoping to get their jollies out of it in some fashion. Otherwise, it would not be inappropriate.If you have had sternal work before, then you will be aware of what the work feels like. However, not all therapists provide sternal work and some of the work can be too challenging for a new therapists or some therapists' current level of training. I do not prvide much sternal work, unless asked or due to a particular complaint that a client is wanting to work on which may need this kind of work. Many clients don't like it, as it can be uncomfortable at times, depending on the client and the nature of the session. Therefore, I am judicious as to who I use these techniques on.I believe that many therapists gravitate to using a general pattern for their sessions, and create the individuality of the sessions based on the client needs, requests and expectations. If you have not been communicating with the therapist up to this point, she may be using a standard framework which can be altered from session to session as you ask for more specific work.A way to break the ice: "[color=#400080][i]I was wondering if you were trained in sternal work? I know some people do and some people don't. But I have seen a therapist in the past who did, and it seemed to help me relax. What do you think?[/i][/color]"Please let us know how it goes.For future reference, client posts are better directed to [url=http://www.massageplanet.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=9][b]this section[/b][/url] of the forums.[size=85]10/04/11: Correction for serious typo. :lipsaresealed:[/size]
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:37 am
RowanB
ย
Post subject:ย
Re: What requests are *appropriate*?
ย
It's always ok to ask for what you want, as long as it is not sexual in nature. Having your sternum worked is a perfectly reasonable request.
It's always ok to ask for what you want, as long as it is not sexual in nature. Having your sternum worked is a perfectly reasonable request.
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:49 am
jbo5
ย
Post subject:ย
What requests are *appropriate*?
ย
I'm not a practitioner, but I hope it is ok that I post. I'm a man that loves getting massages, but am somewhat new to it and somewhat confused as to etiquette and such. I found a therapist I am comfortable with that does a great job for relaxation and muscle therapy a couple of years ago that I've been going to since then. It really has improved my health a lot. I strive to be as respectful as possible, arrive on time, and tip well, etc. I want to be the model client, and actually think I am. Even though I feel I know my therapist pretty well, or maybe because of it, I'm still still somewhat squeamish about making a therapy faux-pas that would make a therapist uncomfortable, or mark me as some sort of weirdo. She does such a really great job overall, but I have learned that each therapist just has their own way so I'm not sure if I should ask for her to hit an area she doesn't do. The only area I'd like her to hit that she doesn't is the sternum. I think I'd find it very calming. Would it be inappropriate to ask for this? I've noticed that many therapists leave the chest totally draped and never go past the shoulders, which is more or less what my therapist does. She works the glutes very well, one of the reasons I go to her. So, to sum up, is it better to just enjoy the excellent job my therapist does or would it be a good idea to try to make it slightly better by asking for something she doesn't normally do? By trying to make something better will I ruin a good thing? If she doesn't hit the chest at all, is that a clear signal she doesn't want to? The last thing I want to do is make her uncomfortable. Advice?
I'm not a practitioner, but I hope it is ok that I post. I'm a man that loves getting massages, but am somewhat new to it and somewhat confused as to etiquette and such. I found a therapist I am comfortable with that does a great job for relaxation and muscle therapy a couple of years ago that I've been going to since then. It really has improved my health a lot. I strive to be as respectful as possible, arrive on time, and tip well, etc. I want to be the model client, and actually think I am. Even though I feel I know my therapist pretty well, or maybe because of it, I'm still still somewhat squeamish about making a therapy faux-pas that would make a therapist uncomfortable, or mark me as some sort of weirdo. She does such a really great job overall, but I have learned that each therapist just has their own way so I'm not sure if I should ask for her to hit an area she doesn't do. The only area I'd like her to hit that she doesn't is the sternum. I think I'd find it very calming. Would it be inappropriate to ask for this? I've noticed that many therapists leave the chest totally draped and never go past the shoulders, which is more or less what my therapist does. She works the glutes very well, one of the reasons I go to her. So, to sum up, is it better to just enjoy the excellent job my therapist does or would it be a good idea to try to make it slightly better by asking for something she doesn't normally do? By trying to make something better will I ruin a good thing? If she doesn't hit the chest at all, is that a clear signal she doesn't want to? The last thing I want to do is make her uncomfortable. Advice?
Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 10:29 pm
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What requests are *appropriate*?
Yes, I guess so.
I have all the concern and respect for women MTs who treat men, and I don't expect one to be comfortable with me (though they may be) before I've been there a few times and conversed (I'm a talker during massages if the MT is ok with it and often they talk more than I) about my wife, family life, community, and tipped well demonstrating that I hold a decent job. I consider myself fortunate to live in a time and place where people study such things that they can care for me, and I'm as grateful as I can be and wish them to feel it.
But you must realize that people who are anxious to defend their "professionalism" aren't helping themselves to do that by reacting emotionally to words rather than the content of a statement made online where no threat could be present. This is not a massage session people! I used rubmaps to learn whether it was a shady place, and I learned it wasn't and went because of *that*. And you are grossly mistaken if you are implying that supposed offending phrase is why the person called moderator imputed creepness to me. He/she obviously has far more problems with what I said than that. I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but I can see by many of the comments by MTs that many see themselves as muscle therapists, and many seem uncomfortable with what I think are called diaper drapes and Swedish relaxation massage.
Yes, I guess so.
I have all the concern and respect for women MTs who treat men, and I don't expect one to be comfortable with me (though they may be) before I've been there a few times and conversed (I'm a talker during massages if the MT is ok with it and often they talk more than I) about my wife, family life, community, and tipped well demonstrating that I hold a decent job. I consider myself fortunate to live in a time and place where people study such things that they can care for me, and I'm as grateful as I can be and wish them to feel it.
But you must realize that people who are anxious to defend their "professionalism" aren't helping themselves to do that by reacting emotionally to words rather than the content of a statement made online where no threat could be present. This is not a massage session people! I used rubmaps to learn whether it was a shady place, and I learned it wasn't and went because of *that*. And you are grossly mistaken if you are implying that supposed offending phrase is why the person called moderator imputed creepness to me. He/she obviously has far more problems with what I said than that. I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but I can see by many of the comments by MTs that many see themselves as muscle therapists, and many seem uncomfortable with what I think are called diaper drapes and Swedish relaxation massage.
What requests are *appropriate*?
Not to beat this to death, but to finish this off in a way that may help someone sometime, it has been said that I've learned how to talk to massage therapists freely about what I want. Actually it's a bit different. I've since discovered two MTs that seem to know what I wanted at the mere mention at the most. With one I just started to describe how it seemed like I felt an endorphin high in the two days after the previous visit from what I guessed was the brief rubbing of the upper sternum. She quickly volunteered to work the whole chest after I flipped. As I was leaving she volunteered "Next time I'll take time to do your abs." I didn't ask for anything. With the new MT last week as she was stopping I merely said something like "Could you work the front too?", or more likely the less direct "Do you ever work the front?" Whatever I said the took it as a request and immediately said "yes" and did so with no hesitation whatever and worked that area quite skillfully that showed much practice. My normal MT doesn't have that same cheerful willingness, though she's great with muscles.
So I think the takeaway is that you probably need an MT that likes to receive the same thing that you do, and knows what you want at the mere mention at most. I suppose some special empathetic type who doesn't require this might do, but I don't know. The MT that candidly related to me that she craved a massage when it was time for hers was a revealing moment. I think the effectiveness of verbal communication may actually be more limited than commonly thought when it comes to massage.
Not to beat this to death, but to finish this off in a way that may help someone sometime, it has been said that I've learned how to talk to massage therapists freely about what I want. Actually it's a bit different. I've since discovered two MTs that seem to know what I wanted at the mere mention at the most. With one I just started to describe how it seemed like I felt an endorphin high in the two days after the previous visit from what I guessed was the brief rubbing of the upper sternum. She quickly volunteered to work the whole chest after I flipped. As I was leaving she volunteered "Next time I'll take time to do your abs." I didn't ask for anything. With the new MT last week as she was stopping I merely said something like "Could you work the front too?", or more likely the less direct "Do you ever work the front?" Whatever I said the took it as a request and immediately said "yes" and did so with no hesitation whatever and worked that area quite skillfully that showed much practice. My normal MT doesn't have that same cheerful willingness, though she's great with muscles.
So I think the takeaway is that you probably need an MT that likes to receive the same thing that you do, and knows what you want at the mere mention at most. I suppose some special empathetic type who doesn't require this might do, but I don't know. The MT that candidly related to me that she craved a massage when it was time for hers was a revealing moment. I think the effectiveness of verbal communication may actually be more limited than commonly thought when it comes to massage.
What requests are *appropriate*?
To jbo5:
When you post something online, people don't always read it the way you intended when you typed it. I have also been on the receiving end of suspicion and/or criticism... until I provided additional explanation. The way you phrased some things was very similar to previous posts by known trolls, and that raised some red flags. As a new participant on these forums, the intent and meaning of what you post is subject to greater scrutiny until you have become "known" and somewhat better understood. That is part of the reason that all new MassagePlanetL members are asked to post introductions in the appropriate forum. As people get to know you through discussion, you will notice a change in the responses your posts receive.
I don't have a problem with that fact that you wanted someone to work on your chest, but the way you described your search and the massage experiences came across... poorly. Your followup explanations and indignation were most welcome to me.
In my opinion, an MT that doesn't do a verbal intake is skipping one of the most important parts of the job. The verbal intake is their opportunity to discover and/or confirm whether you have any contraindications, why you are seeking massage, how your health history and lifestyle contribute to your current need for massage, whether you have any preferences about what you do/don't like, whether you have any particular requests, how long the massage will be, whether it would be appropriate to modify draping/bolstering for your comfort, whether you are on medications that may alter your physiological response to massage, etcetera. A good, detailed intake doesn't have to take a long time when skillfully done, and it can make all the difference between a so-so massage and a great one.
Though it's possible to occasionally find an MT who seems to intuitively "understand" your needs, you also know that it's hit-or-miss and may vary from one session to the next. On the other hand, a good MT that is consistently thorough and keeps good notes on your history, needs, and preferences can usually be counted on to deliver great massages over and over again.
A good MT should be well acquainted with how to work the abdomen, the glutes, the hip flexors, the chest, the thighs... professionally and effectively. They should know what they are working on and why they are doing it one way instead of another way - and be able to answer the questions you ask about that work (within the limits of their knowledge). Now that you have found some MTs that seem accommodating, you might want to ask them for a chance to discuss what you are looking for before your next massage begins so they can plan the session accordingly. That is more likely to result in the massage you want vs the massage you actually receive.
To jbo5:
When you post something online, people don't always read it the way you intended when you typed it. I have also been on the receiving end of suspicion and/or criticism... until I provided additional explanation. The way you phrased some things was very similar to previous posts by known trolls, and that raised some red flags. As a new participant on these forums, the intent and meaning of what you post is subject to greater scrutiny until you have become "known" and somewhat better understood. That is part of the reason that all new MassagePlanetL members are asked to post introductions in the appropriate forum. As people get to know you through discussion, you will notice a change in the responses your posts receive.
I don't have a problem with that fact that you wanted someone to work on your chest, but the way you described your search and the massage experiences came across... poorly. Your followup explanations and indignation were most welcome to me.
In my opinion, an MT that doesn't do a verbal intake is skipping one of the most important parts of the job. The verbal intake is their opportunity to discover and/or confirm whether you have any contraindications, why you are seeking massage, how your health history and lifestyle contribute to your current need for massage, whether you have any preferences about what you do/don't like, whether you have any particular requests, how long the massage will be, whether it would be appropriate to modify draping/bolstering for your comfort, whether you are on medications that may alter your physiological response to massage, etcetera. A good, detailed intake doesn't have to take a long time when skillfully done, and it can make all the difference between a so-so massage and a great one.
Though it's possible to occasionally find an MT who seems to intuitively "understand" your needs, you also know that it's hit-or-miss and may vary from one session to the next. On the other hand, a good MT that is consistently thorough and keeps good notes on your history, needs, and preferences can usually be counted on to deliver great massages over and over again.
A good MT should be well acquainted with how to work the abdomen, the glutes, the hip flexors, the chest, the thighs... professionally and effectively. They should know what they are working on and why they are doing it one way instead of another way - and be able to answer the questions you ask about that work (within the limits of their knowledge). Now that you have found some MTs that seem accommodating, you might want to ask them for a chance to discuss what you are looking for before your next massage begins so they can plan the session accordingly. That is more likely to result in the massage you want vs the massage you actually receive.
What requests are *appropriate*?
Thanks.
Do you really think I don't get any of this by now? Spare me the condescending bull manure. I don't know why you bothered with the conciliatory "happened to me too" crap above if it was just a warm-up to remind me again how badly I screwed up. To keep reiterating what has already been said is a bit much.
Thanks.
Do you really think I don't get any of this by now? Spare me the condescending bull manure. I don't know why you bothered with the conciliatory "happened to me too" crap above if it was just a warm-up to remind me again how badly I screwed up. To keep reiterating what has already been said is a bit much.
What requests are *appropriate*?
You don't need to demostrate to anyone that you hold a decent job. People come to us from all walks of life. Some of them save up for weeks to see us, others can throw their money away like it's going out of style. There is no need to tell us on a forum that you are talking about your wife, family, community, etc., in your sessions. If you didn't think about it until now, even questionable clients can (and will) talk about and do such things. So, I am not sure why this is so important for you to come back to.
Great tips do not "a-great-client-make". They are only a bonus.
This is a public forum, and because we are therapists, we are going to respond to what you put out there for us to read. If it gets a little emotionally charged, then so be it. This may not be a massage session, but it certainly makes sense for us to address client and hobbyist comments when they seem a little out of the norm.
It doesn't matter if someone had a "moderator" eforum.xxx or not. On this forum the moderators post as individuals who happen to do behind the scenes work. If they want to "moderate" you, you'll be given that information as a moderated post. There is certainly nothing wrong, in my opinion with JasonE (you really can call him by his screen name) addressing his legitimate concerns with your post.
jbo5 said:
You don't need to demostrate to anyone that you hold a decent job. People come to us from all walks of life. Some of them save up for weeks to see us, others can throw their money away like it's going out of style. There is no need to tell us on a forum that you are talking about your wife, family, community, etc., in your sessions. If you didn't think about it until now, even questionable clients can (and will) talk about and do such things. So, I am not sure why this is so important for you to come back to.
Great tips do not "a-great-client-make". They are only a bonus.
jbo5 said:
This is a public forum, and because we are therapists, we are going to respond to what you put out there for us to read. If it gets a little emotionally charged, then so be it. This may not be a massage session, but it certainly makes sense for us to address client and hobbyist comments when they seem a little out of the norm.
It doesn't matter if someone had a "moderator" eforum.xxx or not. On this forum the moderators post as individuals who happen to do behind the scenes work. If they want to "moderate" you, you'll be given that information as a moderated post. There is certainly nothing wrong, in my opinion with JasonE (you really can call him by his screen name) addressing his legitimate concerns with your post.
What requests are *appropriate*?
jbo5 - if you write to this forum as a male client, you are pretty much assumed to be a creep. From what I can tell, it's a very small group of therapists that hang out here, and they are by no means representative of the profession. And, as you've seen, they are not at all helpful.
Just talk to your therapist, ask for what you want, and don't worry about offending her. If she won't rub your sternum, find someone who will.
Best of luck.
jbo5 - if you write to this forum as a male client, you are pretty much assumed to be a creep. From what I can tell, it's a very small group of therapists that hang out here, and they are by no means representative of the profession. And, as you've seen, they are not at all helpful.
Just talk to your therapist, ask for what you want, and don't worry about offending her. If she won't rub your sternum, find someone who will.
Best of luck.
What requests are *appropriate*?
Most of the therapists on this forum are seasoned verterans, so you are probably correct, they may not be representative of the profession in regard to an online venue. But what really strikes me, is that this is a strange post to make, coming from someone who just recently wrote:
1969libertine said:
Most of the therapists on this forum are seasoned verterans, so you are probably correct, they may not be representative of the profession in regard to an online venue. But what really strikes me, is that this is a strange post to make, coming from someone who just recently wrote:
[url=http://www.massageplanet.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=33171&start=0]1969libertine[/url] said:
- EMSpa_schedule:
Tomorrow's sneak peek: For Tuesday November 5, 2024, our attendants will be Ada
, Cici 
, Yoyo 
, Ivy and Christina 
Call 905-479-6668 for a great session!! - Endless Joy Spa:
[GRAND OPENING] 
Endless Joy Spa 
(155 East Beaver Creek Rd Unit #8, Richmond Hill) 416-731-856510am-2am, New First Day Young Slim Petite Chinese Vivi, Tall Slim Sexy Chinese Kelly, Sexy Chinese Coco, Young Sexy Chinese Abie, Young Sexy CBC Rachel. - Shangri-la Spa:
โโ
MakeIt Monday 
SL West your ultimate destination for luxury Asian massages
Two fab spots: Richmond Hill & Oakville. 
9 stunning Girls from China, HK, Japan & Korea โ 34D Suki, Cindy, 
Queen Selena, Kelly, Amber, Busty Echo, JPN Yui, RMT Miya & 
Jessica โ 
โโTable Shower special on 
Hit up 647-695-6354
or text to 
647-578-8169 160 East Beaver Cr., Unit 12, Richmond Hill 
Let the fun times roll, baby!
- Sunrise Health Centre:
Tiana & Noor are here Today! Call/Text: (647) 325-8086 
We have Hot & Sexy Girls Every Day. They all do Extra Services & are Very Open-Minded ~ Drop In Anytime - Walk-Ins Are Always Welcome! Unit 27, 10 East Wilmot Street, Richmond Hill - New Oriental Health Centre:
Happy, Nayla & New Girl Lily are in today~
Call 
Text: (647) 381-2688 Make Your Day Incredibly Delicious 
Our girls provide lots of service options & are Extremely Open-Minded 
We're Open 9am - 2am everyday! Drop in to Unit 26, 10 East Wilmot Street, Richmond Hill. - wonderspa:
Wonder spa [9421Jane st unit 127)Please 
4165000-800,if you need to find a comfortable... Wonder spa [9421Jane st unit 127)Please 4165000-800,if you need to find a comfortable place to revive your body come visit us.beautiful attendants AMY Mina Mimi seevice you relieve stresses.Amy is very sexy and long hair fridendly girl, Mimi is younge sexy girl excellent service make... - Newspring@:
Nu spring spa 
sexy hot Viennese and Latino girl working at Nu spring spa 416-669-8508 - Sparkling Spa:
Sexy Korean Massage Girl Summer is working at Sparkling Spa with Service Queen Zoe today. Real pictures of Summer & Zoe
Call or text to book appointment 
๏ธ
SPARKLING SPA๏ธ 
50 Lockridge Ave Unit 8 
Markham, ON L3R 8X4 (905) 604-8186 Spa Land Line (437) 446-6688 NEW Spa Cell Phone (West of Warden & 16th Ave) OPEN 10am to 9pm MONDAY to SUNDAY - Golden Sunshine Spa:
Click on our Username and FOLLOW US for updates and special services ! Today
AlettaYoyoCarlyTiffanyTania Call us โ 905 - 265 - 2158 Your ultimate service awaits! - Jennyโs Spa:
JENNYโS SPA 5170 DUNDAS STREET WEST ETOBICOKE ONTARIO M9A 1C4 ( 647-893-5196)Call or Text ( 437-888-3759)Call Only (ETOBICOKE) OPEN 10am to 9pm MONDAY to SUNDAY GRAND OPENINGNEW GIRLS EVERYDAYEXCELLENT MASSAGE + SERVICE QUEENS NOW AVAILABLE AT JENNYโS SPA FOR ALL YOUR MASSAGE AND SPECIAL EXTRA NEEDS TWO BEAUTIFUL NEW YOUNG ASIAN GIRLS EVERYDAY REAL PICTURES OF ATTENDANTS TODAYโs ROSTER INCLUDES: Rose - A sexy new addition to our lin - Moneylee:
All season wellness center :Young girl big boobs beautiful face deep massage Doris ,New Young girl big boobs beautiful face deep massage Baby ,Young girl big breasted beautiful buttocks charming temperament big boobs Yoyo ,Young girl Big breasted saucy naughty Ella ,Enchanting sexy petite deep massage Sherry , address: #5-30 Rambler dr Brampton ,Ontario L6W 1E24376655510
๏ธ๏ธ
- Moneylee:
Full season wellness center: New Young girl Big-breasted big Big boobs big butts May, Young girl big breasted beautiful buttocks charming temperament big boobs Vita ,Young girl big boobs beautiful face deep massage Bobo, Young beautiful face sexy body and good deep massage maggie,Enchanting sexy petite deep massage Mary. 2560 Shepard ave Mississauga unit 1 .4379857899 ๏ธ๏ธ
- Red Rose Spa:
We have 5 hot brown girls today LUCY, ASHA, MALIYA, SANA, ANGELINA, MEERA, NISHA, AMANDA, MIMI, ANGEL 2588 Birchmount 2 Invergordon 647-702-8800 Please visit for a great erotic massage
- Soul Relax Spa:
Looking for a relaxing escape? MeetIvyBrandyKimCall us today for the best treatment and service experience. Click on our Username and FOLLOW US for updates ! Call now โ 289 - 298 - 5662 Your ultimate relaxation awaits!
- Lulu_Villa_Spa:
Candy She is a Vietnamese๏ผ Face and body to die for. Her smile will make you melt. Sami Gorgeous Model Type CBC Vietnamese School Girl Judy is a gorgeous model type Vietnamese Girl647- 446-0886
- See You Health Center:
Natalie she is CBC/filipina mixed Petite school girlโจGFE, BBbj, DFK in her menu. Judy is a gorgeous model type Vietnamese Girl Judy is a gorgeous model type Vietnamese Girl416-988-2950
- AliceSpa:
MONDAY at ๐๐๐๐๐ ๐ฆ๐ฃ๐, 4915 Steeles Ave. E, Scarborough ๐ฐ๐ญ๐ฒ-๐ฎ๐ต๐ด-๐ฌ๐ด๐ต๐ด. 32 Sexy Young Girls Today at Alice Spa, : LALA,[/color 19Yrs young & beautiful petite, pretty, baby faced Japanese, 5โ2โ 90Lbs B Cup, bbbj, rim. Lala is energetic, fresh, beautiful & innocent, makes your heart beat. Beauty and youth can conquer everything. Highly recommended
SUKI, baby face student, nice all natural C Cups, short 5โ2โ, sexy ass, - bnwellness_wilson:
We have 4 young beautiful girls are working today, young cute Yuki 30โs open mind slime and young fun Selina with curves body 30โs , pretty GFE Ella and sexy Coco are providing deep tissue and sensual massage, pls call 416-3985777 book appointment and walk in always welcome, back entrance and parking available, 350 Wilson Ave North York
- AmoreSpaEtobicoke:
AMORE SPA 127 Westmore Drive, Unit 106C Etobicoke, ON M9V 3Y6 โ 437-688-2407 โ This is the official schedule for AMORE SPA: (Korean Ashley hasn't been here for AGES. The old confused imposter doesn't realize he has lost another customer, and continues to post errors and incorrect pics). Monday at AMORE SPA: CHERRY(10AM-11pm) & *New Spinner LALA CHERRY is a proven superstar, Slim Asian
- Mephistopheles:
Where is milf mimi working, a little crazy lady.
- ASPA:
๐ ๐ข๐ก๐๐๐ฌ ๐๐ง ๐ ๐๐๐: EMMA and Best Massage RACHEL.
๐ ๐๐๐, 28 South Unionville Ave, Unit 5, Markham. ๐๐ฎ๐น๐น ๐ฒ๐ฐ๐ณ-๐ณ๐ฎ๐ต-๐ฒ๐ฒ๐ฌ๐ฒ ๐ผ๐ฟ ๐๐ฒ๐
๐ ๐ฒ๐ฐ๐ณ-๐ด๐ฏ๐ต-๐ฑ๐ต๐ฒ๐ฒ EMMA is 1.64Cm. and weighs 52Kg. Emma is sweet and elegant, has very good communication & massage, and her services will make your visit enjoyable. RACHEL is slim and attractive - Endless Joy Spa:
[GRAND OPENING] Endless Joy Spa (155 East Beaver Creek Rd Unit #8, Richmond Hill) 416-731-856510am-2am, New First Day Young Slim Petite Chinese Vivi, Tall Slim Sexy Chinese Kelly, Sexy Chinese Coco, Young Sexy Chinese Abie, Young Sexy CBC Rachel.
- ForeverWarden:
Monday at
๐๐๐ก๐๐ฅ๐๐ก ๐ข๐๐
2190 Warden Ave, Unit 201, Scarborough ๐ฐ๐ญ๐ฒ-๐ด๐ฌ๐ฌ-๐ณ๐ด๐ด๐ณ: Bella, Lisa & Ruby. Bella is around 5โ3โ with a thin to medium build, C Cups, and a pleasing personality. She can offer dfk, bbbj and cfs as well as a good massage experience. Lisa is a young, slim & very beautiful Vietnamese beauty with a nice body, nice boobs, nice massage, incredible services. - HolidaySpa:
Monday at
๐๐ธ๐ต๐ฒ๐ญ๐ช๐ ๐ข๐น๐ช3517 Kennedy Rd, Unit 4, Scarborough ๐ฐ๐ฏ๐ณ-๐ฎ๐ฐ๐ณ-๐ญ๐ญ๐ต๐ตAMT, CANDY & CINDY AMY is an attractive young lady with larger breasts and a nice bottom. She has outstanding oral skills, and is very popular. Donโt miss out on her special skills! CANDY is a slim and attractive Asian Attendant with nice boobs, slim waist & a booty loverโs ass. Candy has a full range of services. - Annie Spa:
ANNIE SPA 7-1001 SANDHURST CIRCLE SCARBOROUGH ON M1V 1Z6 (647) 891-9688 (416) 291-8879 (FINCH & MCCOWAN) OPEN 9:30am to 9pm MONDAY to SUNDAY NEW MANAGEMENTNEW GIRLS GORGEOUS NEW YOUNG ASIAN GIRLS - TODAYโs ROSTER INCLUDES: Summer has nice sexy body, and nice breasts. She can give very good massage and fun service. Very sexy, and so friendly. Beautiful girl with great massage skills and willing to give you a happy fun session multiple times if you
- EMSpa_schedule:
Here's a sneak peek of the schedule: For Monday November 4, 2024, our attendants will be Mia, Summer , Sandy , Vicky and Ivy . Sandy is joining us on Mondays now!
- Endless Joy Spa:
[GRAND OPENING] Endless Joy Spa (155 East Beaver Creek Rd Unit #8, Richmond Hill) 416-731-856510am-2am, NEW FIRST DAY (Nov 4) Young Slim petite Chinese Vivi (Pics in my ad)
- Shangri-la Spa:
Happy Sunday!!โShangri-la Spa & SL Westโ your best destination for luxury Asian massages in GTA Two fab spots: Richmond Hill & Oakville. 9 stunning Girls from China, Hong Kong, Japan & Korea โ Coco, Yoyo, Tina, Eva, JPN Yui, Suki, 36D busty Julie, Sophia & Tiffany โ ready to spoil you silly Table Shower special on now! Summon Us: 647-695-6354 or 647-578-8169 Let the fun times roll, baby!
- Anonymous Mask:
insurance
- starartwork:
Where does Indian SARIKA of Lily Spa work now?
- Sparkling Spa:
๏ธSPARKLING SPA๏ธ 50 Lockridge Ave Unit 8 Markham, ON L3R 8X4 (905) 604-8186 Spa Land Line (437) 446-6688 NEW Spa Cell Phone (West of Warden & 16th Ave) OPEN 10am to 9pm MONDAY to SUNDAY NEW MANAGEMENTNEW GIRLSSUPERSTAR SERVICE QUEENS AVAILABLE AT SPARKLING SPA FOR ALL YOUR MASSAGE AND SPECIAL EXTRA NEEDS SEXY NEW YOUNG GIRLS ALWAYS WORKING - Todayโs Schedule isโฆ Zoe - Stunning Tall Taiwanese Service Queen with Endless Passion and Sensuality w
- Moneylee:
All season wellness center : Young girl big boobs beautiful face deep massage Midi,Young girl big breasted beautiful buttocks charming temperament Lala,Young girl big boobs beautiful face deep massage Helen , Young beautiful face sexy body and good deep massage Maggie , Enchanting sexy petite deep massage Sherry,
address: #5-30 Rambler dr Brampton ,Ontario L6W 1E24376655510 ๏ธ๏ธ - Moneylee:
Full season wellness center: young girl pretty face nice figure Thai deep massage Anika , Student pretty face nice figure Thai deep massage Michelle,Young girl Big breasted saucy naughty Ella, Taiwan girl DD Boobs Thai deep massage lily,Enchanting sexy petite deep massage Mary. 2560 Shepard ave Mississauga unit 1 .4379857899๏ธ๏ธ
- Jennyโs Spa:
JENNYโS SPA 5170 DUNDAS STREET WEST ETOBICOKE ONTARIO M9A 1C4 ( 647-893-5196)Call or Text ( 437-888-3759)Call Only (ETOBICOKE) OPEN 10am to 9pm MONDAY to SUNDAY GRAND OPENINGNEW GIRLS EVERYDAYEXCELLENT MASSAGE + SERVICE QUEENS NOW AVAILABLE AT JENNYโS SPA FOR ALL YOUR MASSAGE AND SPECIAL EXTRA NEEDS TWO BEAUTIFUL NEW YOUNG ASIAN GIRLS EVERYDAY REAL PICTURES OF ATTENDANTS TODAYโs ROSTER INCLUDES: Jenny - An exotic tall and slim Vietn
- wonderspa:
Open Sunday Wonder spa(9421Jane st unit127)416-5000-800.very big boost Joey and Sunny working today,Joey is sexy girl ,she can provide very good massage with sensual touch, nice Sunny can provide deep tissue massage,she got a lot experience,come see them today,welcome to walk in
much try
- AliceSpa:
SUNDAY at ๐๐๐๐๐ ๐ฆ๐ฃ๐, 4915 Steeles Ave. E, Scarborough ๐ฐ๐ญ๐ฒ-๐ฎ๐ต๐ด-๐ฌ๐ด๐ต๐ด:[/color] Hot Busty BLONDE Girl today at Alice Spa: ELLA (12pm-9pm): is a small & curvy white young girl from Romania, super super busty EE Cups, blue eyes, blond hair, ok services, bbbJ cfs. Please call before booking her due to high demand. Alice Spa has DEBIT PAYMENT available now! Plenty of free parking. Front and back entrance. ALICE SPA, 4915 Steeles Ave. E,
- xodyhard:
Anyone know tracy from forever spa,does anyone where she working aside in forever spa?
- Golden Sunshine Spa:
Click on our Username and FOLLOW US for updates and special services ! TodayYoYoBrandyLyndaHellen Call us โ 905 - 265 - 2158 Your ultimate service awaits!
- ASPA:
๐ฆ๐จ๐ก๐๐๐ฌ ๐๐ง ๐ ๐ฆ๐ฃ๐: EMMA and Best Massage RACHEL.[/color]๐ ๐๐๐, 28 South Unionville Ave, Unit 5, Markham. ๐๐ฎ๐น๐น ๐ฒ๐ฐ๐ณ-๐ณ๐ฎ๐ต-๐ฒ๐ฒ๐ฌ๐ฒ ๐ผ๐ฟ ๐๐ฒ๐
๐ ๐ฒ๐ฐ๐ณ-๐ด๐ฏ๐ต-๐ฑ๐ต๐ฒ๐ฒ EMMA is 1.64Cm. and weighs 52Kg. Emma is sweet and elegant, has very good communication & massage, and her services will make your visit enjoyable. RACHEL is a slim and attractive
- ForeverWarden:
Sunday at๐๐๐ก๐๐ฅ๐๐ก ๐ข๐๐2190 Warden Ave, Unit 201, Scarborough ๐ฐ๐ญ๐ฒ-๐ด๐ฌ๐ฌ-๐ณ๐ด๐ด๐ณ: Jennifer & Mia. Jennifer is a tall, slim & pretty Asian babe with natural melons and eraser nipples. She is very open minded. Come and give her a try, and youโll be sure to come back for more. Mia is a Caribbean service queen temptress with incredible curves & very friendly attitude. She is able to bbbj
- HolidaySpa:
Sunday at๐๐ธ๐ต๐ฒ๐ญ๐ช๐ ๐ข๐น๐ช3517 Kennedy Rd, Unit 4, Scarborough ๐ฐ๐ฏ๐ณ-๐ฎ๐ฐ๐ณ-๐ญ๐ญ๐ต๐ตAmy & Suki. AMY is an attractive young lady with larger breasts and a nice bottom. She has outstanding oral skills, and is very popular. Donโt miss out on her special skills SUKI is a sexy lady, short with big boobs, medium massage & nice services. HOLIDAY SPA
- Soul Relax Spa:
Looking for a relaxing escape? MeetRebeccaTiffanyCall us today for the best treatment and service experience. Click on our Username and FOLLOW US for updates ! Call now โ 289 - 298 - 5662 Your ultimate relaxation awaits!
- Lulu1980:
Phoenix blossom Spa
table shower body scrub5124 Dundas W Etobicoke 416-817-3366 Nice girl Luna is joining. She can provide a very good massage with sensual touch. She knows how to take direction and please a man. Jessica can provide deep Thai massage. She takes directions very well. She has many assets and knows how to use them. Come see her today.Welcome to walk in or make an appointment at any time. Plenty of parking space at the back door - Red Rose Spa:
We have 13 hot brown girls today ASHA, MALIYA, PREET, KIRAN, ANNA, NISHA, SALMA, SABHA 2588 Birchmount 2 Invergordon 647-702-8800 Please visit for a great erotic massage
- Applover:
This chat is something. So no one believes Markkk
- Applover:
This chat is something
- SugarLoveSpa:
Sunday at
โ๐ฆ๐จ๐๐๐ฅ ๐๐ข๐ฉ๐ ๐ฆ๐ฃ๐โ 
: ANA, CARA & JOLIE. 1270 Finch Ave W (at Keele St), Unit 18. North York, ANA is a young, short and sweet lady, 5โ1 & 105 Lbs, very tight, with a small to medium booty. Ana is a versatile honey who provides great massage, & can accommodate your needs. CARA is a young & attractive Chinese attendant, 5โ3โ & 100 pounds with natural C Cup big boobs, very friendly - Annie Spa:
ANNIE SPA 7-1001 SANDHURST CIRCLE SCARBOROUGH ON M1V 1Z6 (647) 891-9688 (416) 291-8879 (FINCH & MCCOWAN) OPEN 9:30am to 9pm MONDAY to SUNDAY NEW MANAGEMENTNEW GIRLS GORGEOUS NEW YOUNG ASIAN GIRLS - TODAYโs ROSTER INCLUDES: HelenBrand new very young university student from Hong Kong. Great massage skills with a wild flirtatious side willing to tease and please to bring you to satisfaction. Perky natural 34C breasts perfect for kissing and body slide
- hiyamickey:
Reinella wellness will have 6 girls working, young petite Japanese girl Amanda, Queenie, Lucky, Jenny, Vanessa, Ella @6262 hwy7 unit #1 Vaughan๏ผ905-851-4888
- SugarLoveSpa:
Monday at โ๐ฆ๐จ๐๐๐ฅ ๐๐ข๐ฉ๐ ๐ฆ๐ฃ๐โ : ELLA & TIFFANY. 1270 Finch Ave W (at Keele St), Unit 18. North York, ON โ ๐ฐ๐ฏ๐ณ-๐ฏ๐ฒ๐ฑ-๐ฎ๐ฒ๐ด๐ด โ ELLA is a lovely Thai sweetheart, 5โ1โ with C Cups, smooth skin and a very pleasing attitude. TIFFANY is an amazing slim petite doll with natural 34C melons, slim waist, & a cute little 33โ booty. Tiffany has incredible bbbj skills, tastes as sweet as honey
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