Wullstone thoughts...

[veronica]

I just received my Yacdol unit. I only purchased one and the training manuals to see if I would like it and find it useful and beneficial for my clients. Wow, I really like this infrared heat unit! It seems to be very relaxing to the receiver and it gives my hands a break. I have only started practicing with it so I am interested in the long term effects for clients with chronic hip pain, and other chronic pain. I think my clients will enjoy this on their feet as well. I am taking a class in hot stone massage for the feet in August so I hope this will add to the use of the Yacdo.

For those of you who have purchased the Yacdol unit or the complete set, how are you doing with it? Do your clients enjoy this form of stone massage? What unit do you have and what do you find yourself using it for the most? Just curious. I know we have talked about this in another thread but I felt it deserves a topic all its own.

LeContefairy

 

[who da man?]

This was a great idea to start a new thread on Wullstones, and perfect timing for me. I just got my set (I got both the Yacdols and the Bon mu shon (?) unit) three days ago. The first night, I tried it on myself, my kids, and my dog, and we all loved it.

The next day I had a friend (who is still in massage school) come over for a massage and I used them on her. She was my first real "guinea pig" with the units, and I found myself frustrated that the units were not as hot as I wanted them to be, even at the highest setting, and they cooled off while using them. She felt that they cooled off, too (she has had hot stone massage), but we talked about how I could modify the treatment to alternate using the units, then my hands, then the units again, since they heat right back up when allowed to "rest" a bit.

Well, yesterday I had a massage client over whom I had given Swedish massage to before. I offered him the Wullstones as a special treat, and I did modify my routine as above, and, wow, he absolutely LOVED it. Couldn't stop talking about how relaxing the heat was.

I LOVED how easy they were to clean before and after. All in all, after yesterday's experience, I think I'm going to really like these. I use both the large ones (on the limbs, the back, the upper chest) and the smaller Yacdols (on the hands, feet, shoulders).

Although the instuctions say they heat up in 5-10 minutes, I would advise giving it at least 15 minutes to fully heat up.

Can't wait to read everyone else's comments about these.

 

[Theodore Macmahon]

I agree about giving Wullstone its own thread.
I only have the larger Bong Mu Shon, but am fast realizing how much I would enjoy having the two Yacdol units. I am actually using the BMS in every massage I do (for the last week or so). EVEYONE comments on how sedating it is to their muscles. I watched the video & while I appreciate the sequences they have suggested, I'm finding that I enjoy using them like I do my regular hot stones - not doing a protocol, but using them as an extension of my hands. Speaking of my hands - I am so pleased about the diminished wear & tear feeling I get too. I find the unit very easy to clean (I use "Method" lavender or grapefruit wipes from Target).
I think the brochures they sent have too much info on them for clients. (I don't think clients want to read about all that background; rather would like to simply know what it is & what it can do for them) - although they are very beautiful to look at.
I am not an OM practitioner, so I would have to do some major studying to be able to speak with confidence when asked questions about meridians, marmas, etc if I went that route, so I am sticking to what I know & do well.
I had originally thought of charging a premium price for a Firestone massage, but have since changed my mind. I incorporate it into my customized massage just like any other technique (like cupping, etc).
Just for an idea - here's what I did with my last client of the day yesterday (background - client's posterior body is always in trauma & 'armored up' when she comes in - my usual hour with client every 3 weeks is a hard-fought battle to get elasticity & hydration into those connective tissues so I can even find her knots)
Warmed up the back/neck/shoulders with medium & applying firm, slow work. Bong Mu Shon one side thoroughly (using only one hand held bms stone - other hand like a mother hand & an ongoing assessment tool), then the other side. Use both simultaneously, adding some pressure of my own to beef it up. For all of this I had it set to 51 degrees centigrade.
Put BMSs in holder & did detail work on both sides, adding one BMS into the scap work, etc when I felt like it. Followed that with cupping massage, putting BMSs back in holders & turning one side up to almost highest setting). Sombra gel. Covered back with sheet & did skin rolling, then 'ironed' the back over the sheet with that one hot wullstone. I spent about 45 minutes on her back. Worked legs with hands, then Wullstones. Spent last five-ish minutes with her supine, doing anterior, medial & posterior neck work.

How are you using the Yacdols, lecontefairy? Do you like that they just have a low & high setting? I can totally see myself twirling & rolling those into the neck landmarks, etc. Just can't decide yet whether to get one or two! ha ha

looking forward to hearing others' experiences! I am TOTALLY sold on far-inrared heat!!!
Jill/sagetherapist

 

[Dom]

peaceful, did you find the larger ones cooling off or the Yacdols? I don't seem to get that with mine, but you can bet I'm going to be sneakily running one up my forearm, etc to check more often!
Jill/Sagetherapist

P.S. I'm going to invite Ron or Craolyn to post some suggestions or replies to this thread.

 

[Jessica F]

I'd have to say that both types cool off relatively quickly, but to be fair, I do live in cold NH and my client's feet are often cold when they first get here. By the way, I have found that to be true even when put at 55 degrees (C). Another LMT in NH who uses them has found the same thing.

I look forward to hearing what Carolyn or Ron think about this; I haven't e-mailed them about it yet, because I wanted to give it a fair chance. I still love the whole idea of them, and I know they'll work well for me, but it's just a bit different than I thought it would be in that respect.

 

[mohamed]

So far I have used the Yacdo for feet on yesterdays clients and they all really enjoyed how relaxed their whole body felt. The same with my husband, I did his feet with the video(no hot stone training until August!)and he said his whole body felt relaxed, he has had a few problems with his feet as far as evulsing his cuboid, he is also a runner. I like using one Yacdol and like you I use a "mother" hand. I asked my one client who loves my one hour tired feet retreat to let me do a treatment on her. I also told her she was my first real guinea pig. I did not expect her to compare the one hour with a 15 minute practice with the wullstone but she said she really liked the combination of the stone and my hand.

I use the low temperature setting on the feet and switch to high as I travel up the leg into the fleshy parts and then switch back to low as I travel down, I usually do the heel after the leg when the heat is at its highest since that is not as sensitive an area.

I have not experienced losing heat, however, we are in Tennessee and it has not been excessively cold here. I also give the women a warm herbal foot bath before their massage to help warm up the feet, I do this in summer for different reasons. That might be one way to get the feet warm before using the wullstone? I use Dr. Bronners soap and a little goes a long way.

This is fun, I am very glad I purchsed the Yacdol. I also enjoyed how it seemed to save my hands on a busy day like yesterday.

I agree that the brochures have too much information. I am having trouble finding a way to describe infarred heat. How do you explain what infarred heat is and how it works and what all do you tell your clients it is beneficial for?

LeContefairy

 

[Shep]

WullStone support

happy to answer any WullStone related questions from an educational perspective - hopefully won't be considered spamming - and very grateful to share such valuable feedback from you guys at the 'front line' so to speak. I used the complete WullStone system in my own professional practice over a period of 4-5 years or so whilst formulating the training and promotional matierals so hopefully I've managed to address most of the practical issues. But of course everything evolves so we're always open to comments, suggestions, and change for the better.
In answer to the brochure thing: I totally agree - but we actually have 2 brochures - the 'corporate' glossy full color one which is intended for industry professionals - and we wanted to provide as much information as possible to allow practitioners to make a well informed decision about the potential value of WSTx to their business - but it's not meant for client/consumer reading. We do have a smaller more user-friendly tri-fold simply outlining WSTx treatment benefits with space for you to include your business logo. Please call or email Ron Ewerth and he'll get some out to you pronto if you. In the meantime, we'd like to hear from you. How can we help you? What materials do you want? We'll be more than happy to create whatever you need to support your WullStone success. Just let us know.
Re the chronic pain query: we have reference sources listed in the corporate brochure for various published papers and reports related to use of infrared for a wide range of conditions. I have a number of abstracts outlining results of use of WullStone for chronic inflammatory arthritis: specifically increase in blood circulation and cellular metabolism, extension of capillary vessels, reduction of inflammatory exudates, recuction of TNF-alpha and IL-1beta, pain relief, increase in type II collagen. There are a number of other reference sources to be found on PubMed.
Hope this helps.
Looking forward to hearing from you.
Carolyn Sajdecki

 

[bitch]

No Carolyn, we'd hardly call your post spamming.
After all, I believe peacefulharbor or someone wanted your input on this thread? All you are doing is responding to a members request and we appreciate your explaining the use of the wullstone both to those who are already using your equipment and to those who may be interested in purchasing it in the future.
Some who have came for just such a reason (ex: Sombraman) have in turn stayed and become valuable members of massageplanet.com. So we certainly hope you'll stick around for further wullstone questions in the future should more turn up!
BTW, did anybody ever put up a link to the Wullstone website in case someone Was interested in purchasing one? You never know when just such a discussion may spark a decision to purchase one! LOL

 

[Pompal 09.]

cooling off?

Hhhmmm - I'd be grateful if you would give me more details about the cooling off phenomenon. The BongMu Shon has a timed limit of 2 hours. Set each stone to the desired temperature and the central red light indicates energy is being delivered to that stone so that whilst you're working you can easily tell if it's on or not. Once the 2-hours is up the unit will conservatively turn itself off. If you touch the temperature buttons once, it will return to the tempreature at which it was last set, and off you go again for another 2-hours. There is an internal thermostat system within the unit that maintains a constant infrared emission and therefore a relatively stable temperature too. This should be calibrated so when the thermostat kicks in, it doesn't noticeably affect the sensation of heat. It may be more noticable on occasions - but nevertheless a temporary fluctuation in temperature output. Another explanation worth bearing in mind is the natural process of accommodation: the initial sensation of heat is always more intense because the infrared waves are stimulating the thermal receptors mainly located in the upper dermis. Once the IR waves pass beyond that - penetrating 3-5 cm - the sensation of heat dminishes - in fact many recipients voluntarily report after treatment that at some point into the massage they no longer felt the heat - and described their experience as more of a deep vibrational sensation. I would be interested to hear if others have reported anything similar.
Anyway - do please give me more details when you get the inclination.
Regards
Carolyn

 

[Debbie]

Regarding the heat, that is exactly what my clients report, Carolyn. I have even tried to use one Bong Mu Shon at a time, gleaning off some heat to my hand to their body first, but most feel that initial fire then immediately settle into comfort, and then report the same as you described.
Regarding the brochures: it is indeed the client brochure that I think is very beautiful, but not client friendly.
My clients LOVE Wullstone! I can't wait to purchase a Yacdol!

Carolyn, thanks for joining our conversation. I knew you'd be great input.
Jill/Sagetherapist

 

[bluareochick8]

Hi Carolyn...When I referred to the heat loss, I didn't mean that the units shut off, but that the skin seems to absorb the heat and then the client doesn't feel as if it's hot anymore (and when I touch the stone after it's been used for a minute, it does indeed feel cooler until I allow it to "rest" for a while). When I feel their skin, though, I can tell they have absorbed a lot of heat, and the heat seems to stay in them for longer than traditional stones. I thank you for that explanation in your post. I think it's important for both the therapist and the client to know what to expect; that's the best way not to get disappointed, and to understand what's happening and the benefits.

By the way, I do love the units. SO easy to clean...that part is fantastic! My boyfriend wants me to test them out on him this weekend...his shoulder is really sore (from doing massage and surfing!) and he can't wait to see if they can help. Any suggestions? I did watch the DVD and read all the material with the kits, but any additional advice would be very welcome.

I agree about the brochure. Carolyn, will Wullstone make the logo and/or artwork available for download and use in our own brochures or advertising if we have purchased the system?

 

[ali.a.j]

Hi Carolyn, are the units available as 230-240V and is there an AUstralian distributor? Are they available in Asia anywhere? Thanks,

 

[Zallarion]

I found interest in this thread from reading another thread about an infrared cellulite treatment. Does this help with cellulite?

 

[horsinround2do]

Thanks Carolyn for answering the earlier posts. I have been feeling the stone and it does seem to "cool off" a bit during use, however, when I feel my clients skin it feel very warm and they do not notice a "cooling". All seem to love it and feel very relaxed after a short time spent. I am using the Yacdo for neck, back, hips and foot work. Since I do not have any hot stone training I am reluctant to purchase the Bon Mu Shon unit. I like the idea of how others have incorporated stones into the Wullstone routine. For those of you doing Wullstone and using basalt stones as well, do you think I could pick up a simple routine with an instructional video or do you recommend a class?

LeContefairy

 

[IWonder]

Lecontefairy,
That's the way I learned hot stone massage - first from a video, then seeking out therapies from various individuals (enjoyed that part immensely) & finally choreographing my own routine that is very similar to my signature therapeutic work. Now, with the Bong Mu Shon, I have simply taken it one step further. The way I approach the work is a little different because of the cords, but it took all of about two sessions for me not to care about the cords any more. I have a small mention of the Wullstone technique to get people's curiousity peaked on my website. I'm pretty darned sure that no one else in the area is offering it, so I am pleased to be on the cutting edge of something that I think will very soon be in big demand. (By the way, I don't incorporate both in the therapy - I am solely using the Wullstone now. After years of cleaning, carting & preparing stones, I am through with that. The Wullstone are simply too easy to clean thoroughly, have at the ready in a moment's notice & my clients prefer it to my old hot stone work.)

By the by... the more I use the Wullstone, I do notice that the heat spikes after resting the stones for a moment. Sometimes I draw off some of that heat by running it up my forearm - then transferring it to the client, and 'chasing' the warmed forearm with the Bong Mu Shon. That is a treat for me too! ha ha

Jill/Sagetherapist

 

[Gabrielle Bell]

I am getting more comfortable with my Wullstones, too. I feel like I'm developing a better routine with them now, kind of alternating between using the stones and using my hands. I REALLY like them, also for all the reasons that Jill mentions (I always hated cleaning my basalt stones!)

I also seem to be getting more used to the wires. For the legs and arms and shoulders/head work, I'm not having any problems with them at all. The only challenge for me now is dealing with them when I do a long sweep over the back; the wires drag on the client's shoulders and they can feel cold. I keep thinking that if I devise some special "hooks" or something that I can attach to the shoulders of my shirt, maybe they would stay airborne and not brush against the client's back. :?:

 

[Pompal 09.]

not having seen the unit, or knowing which end you have your unit (head or foot) when the cords drap on the shoulders, this may be no help at all, but it reminded me of those things that are used to hold the cord of the iron when ironing clothes? Sort of an antenna with a loop at the top the iron cord went through. I'm not really up on the latest ironing techniques, but would imagine they are still around. Not sure where you would attach it either...

 

[ezza1982]

I have a cord issue also. I use the Yacdo on the shoulders and "work" with my free hand, today the cord ended up between my legs with me sort of holding it with my knee. Don't ask me how and I probably can't do it again and I almost got tickled at the thought of the sight of what I was doing! I just liked the idea of giving the client a hot stone to hold or to place on their feet. I have had two hot stone treatments and both times it just really did nothing for me except for the neck work. The two different therapist I went to kept banging the stones together and for me that is like fingernails on a chalk board. Do the wullstones ever bang together, I suspect with the way they are built you wouldn't have much if any banging. One gal was La Stone certified. Also, can one or two stones be heated in the hot towel cabi? Thanks for the encouragement, I think I will order a hot stone video and see a flow and then practice. Jill, have you ordered the Yacdo? Or still just using the Bon Mu Shon? Peacefulharbor, are you incorporating both units into your sessions? Which unit do you find you use the most and why?

LeContefairy

 

[Lori]

(I am enjoying this conversation so much... thanks guys!)

I haven't ordered the Yacdol(s) yet. I am almost reluctant right now, because the massage I'm doing with the Bong Mu Shon is getting very creative.

Here's how I relieve myself of worry over the back with the cords. I work from the side of the table at the client's waist. Even long, sweeping strokes can be done like that - just not like when I would do two slow thumbs down the entire length of the spine. But then again, I am still doing that work in warming up the back before I introduce the Wullstone. I wind the cord around my wrist & up the forearm loosely - maybe two loops. I can unwind with a flick of the wrist while working or stretching with the 'mother hand'.

I'm finding that lots of my clients can take 9and enjoy) the heat at up to 51 or 53C, but the first introduction needs to be at a lower temp (45 works well for most).

I am totally lovin' this Wullstone system.

Here's one of my client's favorite things: after warming up the back of the legs & doing some work with the Wullstone, I use the bong mu shon in my mother hand on the hammies - giving deep compression and cross fiber strokes (with the Bong Mu Shon in my palm) while I lever the lower leg. It gives a whole new dimension to the quads stretches & gluteal work I used to do.

JIll/Sagetherapist

 

[Jen[Minarets & Sunsets]]

Wullstone thoughts

I'm interested in the Wullstone and have read the info. pkg. that Ron. sent. My question is, do you prefer the yacdol unit over the bon mu shon?
I'm thinking I would just want to use this on feet or neck/face. Would one unit {yacdol} suffice for me? Cost is a factor also.