Article on Covid deaths in U.S.

Apologies to my namesake Sy barite. My post above was not in reaction to you at all, but was just a comment only to add to the conversation in supporting some of the really good points usefulidiot made. I've always enjoyed reading your posts Sy Barite and have appreciated your open mindedness, and I'm sorry if I implied to the contrary.

One of the excellent points usefulidiot makes is that none of us can be experts in everything, and thus we have to make decisions about which experts to trust...

For myself, one thing I try to look for in vetting information online is some agreement across a spectrum of media outlets, and when the outlet is one that is lesser known and new to me I must admit that's can be a red flag for myself, and so I like to learn a little bit more about the source first before I read the article itself.

At the time when you originally made your post I did some reading about the American Institute for Economic Research and then got tied up with something else before I had a chance to read the entire article itself, but I must admit what I initially read about the source did alarm me, for example:

"It is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit[5] that partners with the Atlas Network and other Koch-funded think tanks.[6][7]"

"Twitter has removed a tweet from White House coronavirus adviser Dr. Scott Atlas that claimed masks don't work to stop the spread of COVID-19. "Masks work? NO," Atlas had tweeted Saturday, followed by misrepresentations of the science behind the effectiveness of masks in battling the coronavirus pandemic. Atlas also shared a link to an article in The American Institute for Economic Research that argues against the effectiveness of masks."


I previously had already done a lot of reading about the idea that Covid deaths are more likely properly attributable to the co-morbidities that are concomitant with Covid rather than Covid itself, and unfortunately like so much scientific information these days this view has become politicized.

But ultimately I do believe it's currently a minority scientific opinion from the other reading that I've done. I did read your article in full and it's very interesting and compelling. A lot of great points I totally agree with... for example:

Lockdowns have resulted in severe damage to our capacity to improve the general health of society. From the catastrophic economic damage that lowers the standard of living for everyone to surgeries being deemed “unessential,” our current policies are not helping in preventing deaths in general; they are likely leading to more. Suicides and substance abuse are up, mental and physical health are down, all due to lockdowns.

But I have to say I am not persuaded by what I think the main point of the article is: that most Covid deaths that are classified as such are not actually deaths due to Covid. Again I personally believe that to be the minority scientific opinion, and I note the writer is not a medical expert: Ethan Yang, so to some degree this seemed to be speculation based on certain statistics rather than a medical argument.

All that said it's certainly possible I'll change my mind if I continue to read about it from a variety of other sources. And Sy Barite I definitely did not mean to imply you were challenging science! I appreciate and respect that you noted the article conflicts with other studies and is not peer reviewed... I would be interested to see the verdict of the peer reviews once they're completed.

In the article discussing the retraction of the original piece from Johns Hopkins Newsletter, they actually do get into some specific detail about why they disagree: e.g.

it was brought to our attention that our coverage of Genevieve Briand’s presentation “COVID-19 Deaths: A Look at U.S. Data” has been used to support dangerous inaccuracies that minimize the impact of the pandemic. We decided on Nov. 26 to retract this article to stop the spread of misinformation, as we noted on social media...
As assistant director for the Master’s in Applied Economics program at Hopkins, Briand is neither a medical professional nor a disease researcher. At her talk, she herself stated that more research and data are needed to understand the effects of COVID-19 in the U.S. Briand was quoted in the article as saying, “All of this points to no evidence that COVID-19 created any excess deaths. Total death numbers are not above normal death numbers.” This claim is incorrect and does not take into account the spike in raw death count from all causes compared to previous years. According to the CDC, there have been almost 300,000 excess deaths due to COVID-19.


And more... that's all here: A closer look at U.S. deaths due to COVID-19

They also note the article has not been completely removed - it is still accessible:

However, it is our responsibility as journalists to provide a historical record. We have chosen to take down the article from our website, but it is available here as a PDF.
Ah. Thank you. I should have known a guy who chose such a great name couldn't be that far off from my own opinion. ;)

I agree with all of your points. Perhaps I should have expressed my own doubts about the story more strongly, but what I was really focused on was the initial reaction to limit its exposure. I really detest the whole de-platforming and censoring phenomenon that we're in the grip of and I may have focused on that too much.

As for the story itself, I remain open to both sides of the argument. The point made by Briand that most made me sit up was her contention that there is a correlation between the number of covid deaths and the lower number of deaths attributed to other causes that mostly account for death in the most affected age groups. If she's right, I'd be interested in reading the explanation for that. As I said in my first post, it raises some other points I've been wondering about myself.

Here in Canada, the number of deaths naturally increases as somewhere between .7% to 1% of the population dies (our death rate is somewhere around 7.9 per 1000). There are other factors affecting that number, but population increase is the main one. Looking at previous years, we could have expected around 295k folks to pass onto the merry beyond this year. It looks like we're fixing to attribute approximately 12k deaths to Coronavirus in Canada in 2020. I'm not drawing any conclusions, but I am saying those are interesting numbers to keep an eye on.
 
Many people 100% buy into science when it comes to using their computers, cell phones, driving in cars, flying in planes, getting operated on by surgeons, etc. and yet they are completely skeptical of climate scientists, epidemiologists, evolutionary biologists, etc. etc. They are at once both utterly dependent on science but still selectively scornful of science when it doesn't suit their purpose.

One thing about this though is not all scientists, epidemiologists, biologists, etc. agree either. So if you choose to agree with one scientist over a different scientist are you denying the science. One group presents one argument and the other group presents a counter argument. The climate is an interesting one as I believe most agree that the climate is changing, I think where there is disagreement is to the biggest cause and the speed of the change. You have radical claims on both sides of the scale and the truth probably lies somewhere in between.
 
One thing about this though is not all scientists, epidemiologists, biologists, etc. agree either. So if you choose to agree with one scientist over a different scientist are you denying the science. One group presents one argument and the other group presents a counter argument. The climate is an interesting one as I believe most agree that the climate is changing, I think where there is disagreement is to the biggest cause and the speed of the change. You have radical claims on both sides of the scale and the truth probably lies somewhere in between.

That can be true when where there is genuine disagreement or uncertainty in the larger scientific world, but that's often not really the case, so it's important to investigate what the scientific consensus is when it exists.

There is a difference between emerging science and settled science. Claims going against settled science are radical claims, and extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

Sure it used to be that you could find some lone scientist trying to pretend he is a modern day Galileo saying something like "smoking doesn't cause lung cancer", but in many cases it's actually because he's bought and paid for by some entity whose interest depends on what is a radically contrarian view. As they say "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!"

Similarly today there is near total consensus amongst climate scientists on climate, biologists on evolution, epidemiologists on vaccines, etc. I'm not talking about the smaller details of science but the bigger picture questions e.g. is global warming actually happening?, is evolution real?, are vaccines effective?, etc.

People need to be transparent about whether the scientists they choose to advance their arguments have any professional constituency or whether their viewpoint is generally considered to be nuts by the greater scientific community.

"Project Steve" is a good example of scientific consensus and settled science: Project Steve - Wikipedia
 
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That can be true when where there is genuine disagreement or uncertainty in the larger scientific world, but that's often not really the case, so it's important to investigate what the scientific consensus is when it exists.

There is a difference between emerging science and settled science. Claims going against settled science are radical claims, and extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

Sure it used to be that you could find some lone scientist trying to pretend he is a modern day Galileo saying something like "smoking doesn't cause lung cancer", but in many cases it's actually because he's bought and paid for by some entity whose interest depends on what is a radically contrarian view. As they say "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!"

Similarly today there is near total consensus amongst climate scientists on climate, biologists on evolution, epidemiologists on vaccines, etc. I'm not talking about the smaller details of science but the bigger picture questions e.g. is global warming actually happening?, is evolution real?, are vaccines effective?, etc.

People need to be transparent about whether the scientists they choose to advance their arguments have any professional constituency or whether their viewpoint is generally considered to be nuts by the greater scientific community.

"Project Steve" is a good example of scientific consensus and settled science: Project Steve - Wikipedia
All true, but I think we agree not at all applicable to the article that was the reason for this post. John Ioannidis is reputed to be one of the world's leading epidemiologists and he's against lockdowns and has questioned what is accepted in the mainstream as very basic assumptions about covid. I don't wish to speak for Mar91, but there seem to be a lot of questions about the science that are no where near settled and if that's true, then the censorious bent of mind that current rules our media is not good.
 
Best is Henricas, who claims to have seen an article released on November 22, "months ago" Dilutional indeed.
I like the fact that you quote me but do not reply to my answer so that I can't point out how wrong you are about your statement

The article you quote was indeed publish by the American Institute for Research on NOV 26 and it was based on a TWEET published by the Johns Hopkins Newsletter on Nov 22. In turn the Johns Hopkins Newsletter, was quoting a tweet from the Science & Technology section; tweet that was pulled because the data was interpreted wrong.

The science and technology tweet based it's statement on an article published in “docdroid ”. DocDroid is a document sharing platform. It automatically converts your uploaded files and provides a convenient view of the documents and presentations. This data can be publish by anyone, in fact DocDroid publishes this caveat in their home page "DocDroid is a document sharing platform, similar to Google Docs or Dropbox. Unfortunately, sometimes our service is abused by spammers.

A lot of the articles and tweets referenced in the JHN string of data, have been deleted and/or removed due to the misinformation they had, but if you have the patience and knowhow you can still follow the breadcrumbs

I read this article (the base of this string of data) back in the first week of October in "The Plant Strong Club" a site of dubious nature as they have no mission a statement and no "who are we section". The article was using data ending in September 26th, and was interpreting the data at its own will. The page where it was, points to a video in Jason Shurka site, a video full of misinformation and lies. The video has been pulled from YouTube but still can be seen in the Shurka site. Jason Shurka is a self proclaimed Author, Entrepreneur & Investor that peddles new age cures and books.

So you see my friend, is not just pointing to one article and saying this is the truth; If you are going to back something, you should spend the time and make the effort to verify the validity of the information you are backing up.
 
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So I'll just go ahead and call b.s. on most of both your posts on this thread.

You said you read "this article" months ago. Clearly bullshit. You said Trump referred to it during his campaign. Again, bullshit. Now you come back hoping to misdirect from your lies by "demonstrating" your familiarity with file sharing platforms. Slow clap.

We agreed hospitals aren't profiting from covid. Where hospitals are expanding into parking lots that's more an indication of wanting to separate cases, not a capacity problem. In fact there's hardly been any capacity problem in the hospitals in North America.

Again, my point is that I don't believe it was wise to remove or limit access to the article from the JH website without at least citing specifically what was wrong in it. That kind of censorship doesn't lead to helpful conversation, just to more conspiracy theories.
 
So I'll just go ahead and call b.s. on most of both your posts on this thread.

You said you read "this article" months ago. Clearly bullshit. You said Trump referred to it during his campaign. Again, bullshit. Now you come back hoping to misdirect from your lies by "demonstrating" your familiarity with file sharing platforms. Slow clap.

We agreed hospitals aren't profiting from covid. Where hospitals are expanding into parking lots that's more an indication of wanting to separate cases, not a capacity problem. In fact there's hardly been any capacity problem in the hospitals in North America.

Again, my point is that I don't believe it was wise to remove or limit access to the article from the JH website without at least citing specifically what was wrong in it. That kind of censorship doesn't lead to helpful conversation, just to more conspiracy theories.
once again same tactic? LOL
look at the videos read the articles; the links and threats are there, if you take time to read beyond the ONE ARTICLE you quoted you will get better informed and educated.

However is pointless to argue with blind retards such as your-self
 
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None of your links support your statements. You claimed you read the article months ago. You claimed Trump used it in his campaign. You've proven neither of those statements and continue to lie. Sorry if the truth hurts.
 
So, here are a few scenarios for you to comment on the cause of death
  1. Someone is diagnosed with terminal cancer and they have 2 months to live. Driving home from the doctor in complete shock they get into an automobile accident and die on the scene. Is the cause of death cancer or automobile accident?
  2. Someone is diagnosed with Alzheimer’s and have about 2 years left. Their house burns down while they were sleeping and they die. Is the cause of death Fire or Alzheimer’s?
  3. Someone with hypertension and needs to have stents put in but then they are shot to death in a random shooting. Is the cause of death the shooting or hypertension?

    now apply that logic to Covid-19 and ask whether the hospitals and coroners are applying it consistently.
this is a long read for determining cause of death
Essentially it says refer to WHO, it’s a judgment call, and two causes can be listed (1. Immediate cause, and 2. Underlying cause) such as pneumonia due to AIDS or renal failure due to Type 1 Diabetes
 
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    🌺💄Welcome to wonder spa,(9421Jane st unit127)💋4girl working today,New young girl Judy,long hair Mina ,very friendly Sunny,they both can do very good massage and relaxing finish,very good looking,nice body,provide a great girl friend experience,come to try,☎️416-5000-800,welcome to walking
  34. Sunrise Spa:
    😘 We have a wonderful Asian spa in downtown Toronto 😘 302 Adelaide St W, 2nd Floor 😘 Today is Tina, Jennifer and Sophia 😘 416-916-7276
  35. Jenny’s Spa:
    🎉🍒JENNY’S SPA🎉🍒 ✅5170 DUNDAS STREET WEST✅ 👌ETOBICOKE ONTARIO M9A 1C4👌 ☎️( 647-893-5196)☎️Call or Text ☎️( 437-888-3759)☎️Call Only (ETOBICOKE) OPEN 10am to 9pm MONDAY to SUNDAY 🔥✅GRAND OPENING💯NEW GIRLS EVERYDAY🔥EXCELLENT MASSAGE + SERVICE QUEENS NOW AVAILABLE AT JENNY’S SPA FOR ALL YOUR MASSAGE AND SPECIAL EXTRA NEEDS🔥💯😘🔥❤️👌 🔥TWO BEAUTIFUL NEW YOUNG ASIAN GIRLS EVERYDAY🔥 💯REAL PICTURES OF ATTENDANTS💯 🔥TODAY’s ROSTER INCLUDES: Anna😘- A stunning sexy girl from Hong K
  36. AmoreSpaEtobicoke:
    AMORE SPA 127 Westmore Drive, Unit 106C Etobicoke, ON M9V 3Y6 ☎ 437-688-2407 ☎ This is the only official schedule for AMORE SPA: Thursday at AMORE SPA: CHERRY & <New Girl> CHERRY is a proven superstar, Slim Asian with a pretty face, all natural A or B Cups, long nipples, slim waist & small round bum. Her services are legendary. New girl. details later.
  37. ASPA:
    𝗧𝗛𝗨𝗥𝗦𝗗𝗔𝗬 𝗔𝗧 𝐀 𝐒𝐏𝐀: Fox, Coco & 𝗯𝗲𝘀𝘁 𝗺𝗮𝘀𝘀𝗮𝗴𝗲 𝗥𝗮𝗰𝗵𝗲𝗹[/color] 🅰️𝐀 𝐒𝐏𝐀🅰️, 28 South Unionville Ave, Unit 5, Markham. 🅰️𝗖𝗮𝗹𝗹 𝟲𝟰𝟳-𝟳𝟮𝟵-𝟲𝟲𝟬𝟲 𝗼𝗿 𝘁𝗲𝘅𝘁 𝟲𝟰𝟳-𝟴𝟯𝟵-𝟱𝟵𝟲𝟲🅰️ FOX is 26 years old with 34C’s, stands 164Cm tall and weighs 54Kg. Fox is very friendly and can provide a great girlfriend experience.
  38. Moneylee:
    All season wellness center: Young girl big boobs beautiful face deep massage kasa ,Young girl big breasted beautiful buttocks charming temperament big boobs coco ,young girl pretty face nice figure Thai deep massage Tina ,Student big boobs buttocks Vicky, Enchanting sexy petite deep massage Sherry ,🏠address: #5-30 Rambler dr Brampton ,Ontario L6W 1E2☎️4376655510 🦵🦵👄👄👅👅🈵🈵
  39. Moneylee:
    full season wellness center: NewYoung girl big breasted beautiful buttocks charming temperament Anika , Young girl big boobs beautiful face deep massage Bobo ,Young beautiful face sexy body and good deep massage star ,Young girl Big breasted saucy naughty Ella,Enchanting sexy petite deep massage Mary. 🏠 2560 Shepard ave Mississauga unit 1 ☎️ 4379857899 👄👄🦵🦵🈵🈵👅🥳
  40. ForeverWarden:
    Thursday at 🫦❤️🔴🟥♾️𝓕𝓞𝓡𝓔𝓥𝓔𝓡 𝓢𝓟𝓐♾️🟥🔴❤️🫦🫦2190 Warden Ave, Unit 201, Scarborough 𝟰𝟭𝟲-𝟴𝟬𝟬-𝟳𝟴𝟴𝟳: Cindy, Jennifer & Tracy. Anida is a slim Asian babe with a small waist and great bum. Anita has excellent massage, oral and other skills. Cindy is a slim beauty, 5’4”, natural C Cups & wonderfully long nipples. Her massage is nice, her bbbj will drive you wild & her cfs finish is a dream come true.
  41. Endless Joy Spa:
    ✨✨✨✨✨[GRAND OPENING]✨✨✨✨✨ 💞Endless Joy Spa💞 🎇 (155 East Beaver Creek Rd Unit #8, Richmond Hill) 416-731-8565🎇10am-2am, New First Day Young Slim Petite Chinese Vivi, Tall Slim Sexy Chinese Kelly, Sexy Chinese Coco, Young Sexy Chinese Abie, Young Sexy CBC Rachel.
  42. HolidaySpa:
    Thursday at 🌴😎🌅𝓗𝓸𝓵𝓲𝓭𝓪𝔂 𝓢𝓹𝓪🌅😎🌴3517 Kennedy Rd, Unit 4, Scarborough ☎️𝟰𝟯𝟳-𝟮𝟰𝟳-𝟭𝟭𝟵𝟵☎️EMILY, LUCY & CINDY. EMILY is a VERY tiny petite SPINNER superstar of the highest quality. Emily has a pretty face, natural A Cups, slim waist, and a lovely spinner bottom, topped off with the very best of services. LUCY is a beautiful and slim Asian lady with a happy disposition and great services.
  43. Golden Sunshine Spa:
    ✨Click on our Username and FOLLOW US for updates and special services ! ✅ Today🌸Aletta🌸Alisa🌸Isabella🌸Nina🌸Selina Call us ☎ 905 - 265 - 2158☎️ Your ultimate service awaits! ✨
  44. bnwellness_wilson:
    We have 5 young beautiful girls are working today, young fun Ivy 30’s open mind with big buttocks and young new pretty Lily 25’s with curve body,Young sweet Vivian 22’s, cute GFE Ella and sexy naughty Tina are providing deep tissue and sensual massage, pls call 416-3985777 book appointment and walk in always welcome, back entrance and parking available, 350 Wilson Ave North York
  45. SugarLoveSpa:
    Thursday at ❤️💙 💜⎝𝗦𝗨𝗚𝗔𝗥 𝗟𝗢𝗩𝗘 𝗦𝗣𝗔⎠💖💗💘: LINDA, LUNA & TIFFANY. 1270 Finch Ave W (at Keele St), Unit 18. North York, ON ☎ 𝟰𝟯𝟳-𝟯𝟲𝟱-𝟮𝟲𝟴𝟴 ☎ LINDA is a beautiful young Asian mix girl, 60Kgs with big D Cup boobs with pointy nipples, very friendly, bbbj and many services. LUNA is a slim, VERY PETITE and capable Vietnamese beauty nice natural 34C Cups. Luna can do everything.
  46. Soul Relax Spa:
    ✨ Looking for a relaxing escape? ✅ Meet🌸LuLu🌸Valentina🌸KarlaCall us today for the best treatment and service experience. Click on our Username and FOLLOW US for updates ! Call now ☎ 289 - 298 - 5662☎️ Your ultimate relaxation awaits! ✨
  47. See You Health Center:
    Natalie she is CBC/filipina mixed Petite school girl Lin Very Young, Petite
Vietnamese Student
With Spicy Slim Body
5’ 1”, 100 lbs Blonde Hair
Great BBJ, CIM Cici Cute Skinny Sexy Vietnamese Girl With Voluptuous Huge C Melons Provides Amazing Service ☎️416-988-2950
  48. Annie Spa:
    Our famous sexy superstar Suki is working today Thursday November 7th with gorgeous young girls Cici and Coco🔥😘 Suki only works on Thursdays and her schedule gets booked up very quickly so book your appointments well in advance…it’s always a very special and busy day at Annie Spa when Suki is working 💯😘❤️🥰 Call Annie Spa and ask for May to book appointments 💯❤️🙏🏻 1001 Sandhurst Circle Unit #7 Finch and McCowan Area 437-818-8896 416-291-8879
  49. Lulu_Villa_Spa:
    Candy She is a Vietnamese, Face and body to die for. Her smile will make you melt. Sami Gorgeous Model Type CBC Vietnamese School Girl Judy is a gorgeous model type Vietnamese Girl ☎️647- 446-0886
  50. Sunrise Health Centre:
    Tiana & New Girl Angela are here Today! Call/Text: (647) 325-8086 💦 We have Hot & Sexy Girls Every Day. They all do Extra Services & are Very Open-Minded ~ Drop In Anytime - Walk-Ins Are Always Welcome! Unit 27, 10 East Wilmot Street, Richmond Hill
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