Bangkok Post: Nightspots forced to shut earlier

[Maria M]

My friend who attended the meeting in Patong told me it was not many people there and they also left after 20 minutes when they heard they had to go to Phuket Town.

 

[stingray]

Kostanz the Discos should not be under this 1am restriction, and from what i hear there is alot to still come, but irresepctive Patong should'nt be too badly affected. Even if some things are not so out in the open. I am heading over in March and am not too concerned that my time will be crap. I am sure I can find plenty going on

 

[crazy4fun]

Swishtz what you said is in contrast with what SanoukAngloThai wrote yesterday:

"Was talking to friends in Tiger complex and disco and police last night, and from March 1st they will impose 1am blanket closing on all Patong - so now you know and until this starts to hurt financially (tax revenues) probably just have to live with it!"

I think that we will have to wait and see.
Kostanz

 

[thorn105]

Review of zoning draft tomorrow

Published on Feb 16, 2004

The current rule allows entertainment venues to remain open till 2 am, depending on their type of services. Nightclubs can operate until 2 am, discotheques until 1 am, and lounges, bars and massage parlours until midnight.

I find your posts very informative and thankyou for that , the only thing i did not understand was some of the cabinets rulings on types of venue.
Nightclubs till 2am and discoteques till 1am , i thought these were one and the same thing ?? I am utterly confused by this .

 

[Chip O]

Konstanz there are so many people saying different things it is hard to know what is fact or rumour i dont think the cops even know what is going to happen yet as don't many politicians also depends what police you are talking too and who they have been talking to.
If Patong is hit like this it is pretty certain the island bars and entertainment venues will close themselves in protest for a week for starters, this has happened before and was pretty successful. There are "late night" places in Patong that exist (I wont mention on here) that currently fall outside the 2am laws, so they may carry on as b4.
This rule still has not been passed into law as far as i am aware, it was supposed to be done on 16th Feb, but as of yet I have seen no announcement. Until that approval comes through from the cabinet there are no grounds of enforcement. As I said I am trying to get some additional info from elsewhere, but worst case scenario we'll all find out in 2 weeks time !

 

[tophdguy]

[QCity calls for review of entertainment legislation to allow 4 a.m. and/or 24 hour operation in specific zones

“Everyone” confused over variations in new laws

Veerachai Somchart

It appears that the only person who understands the new entertainment legislation might be the person who wrote it, and even that is not a sure thing.

By now, most likely everyone who has any interest in the new law is well versed in the changes that have been making headlines, but of late, these changes are being altered. At a recent cabinet meeting Deputy PM Purachai Piumsomboon, head of the committee making the legislation changes, proposed classification for operating times in specific venues, such as bath massage houses and other entertainment venues, by separating operating times according to zoning. He is prosing these new variations due to mounting concern that the populace may try to invoke paragraph 50 of the constitution, which allows “the people” to overturn legislation if they gather enough signatures on a petition.

To avoid such an exercise, the deputy PM said that zoning would be needed. For example, he said, dance venues inside the designated “entertainment zone(s)” would be allowed to operate from 9 p.m. until 2 a.m., but those outside the zone would be required to close at midnight. Beer bars inside the zone would be allowed to open from 11 a.m. to midnight ... Thai massage parlors inside the zone would be allowed to operate from 4 p.m. to midnight and outside the zone, 6 p.m. to midnight.

Places offering live music and shows inside the zone would operate from 6 p.m. to 1 a.m., but those outside the zone must close at midnight. He said that these regulations will come into effect as of March 1 this year.

However, there might be yet another twist to the saga. Suwit Nongyai, Pattaya city council member who is involved with the drafting of the new entertainment legislation in parliament said, “In reality, the law must be passed by parliament with a majority vote for it to come into effect, since it is being proposed by the Ministry of Interior. Currently, it has only passed through cabinet and has not been presented to the parliament.”

Suwit went on to say, “The new legislation will give special consideration to tourist destinations such as Pattaya, Phuket, Bangkok and Chiang Mai only, which would allow them to operate 24 hours. They will only be closed pending legal action if they fail to abide by the law (laws such as serving minors, drugs found on the premises, etc.). High ranking officials will also be able to order closure of a specific venue if it fails to abide by the rules. These laws have also yet to be passed.”

Suwit did, however, admit, “I’m sure that there will be changes coming.”

Meanwhile, back here in Pattaya where entertainment venue operators are still scratching their heads, wondering what this all means and how it will all turn out, said operators are trying to take matters into their own hands and have submitted a petition to protect their interests.

In the petition, local bar owners addressed 5 main issues: 1) The new laws are unclear for business owners and further clarification is required on their part; 2) The March 1 deadline for implementation is too soon for businesses to comply; 3) The 50,000 baht license registration fee is too high and they have called for reconsideration. If one complex has 20 bars, they said it would be better if the complex owner registers a single business and then collects the relevant fees from each operator; 4) Punishments of bar owners are too severe, e.g. being caught serving an intoxicated customer. Such regulations could leave an open door for officials to take advaneforum.xxxe of bar owners, and 5) Operating times designated to be 6 p.m. till midnight are inappropriate for Pattaya and would negatively affect the city’s tourist numbers, since the city never really sleeps.

After receiving the petition, city administrators met at city hall and decided to call for a further clarification of the laws.

Tawit Chaisawangwong, council president, said that he and other city officials presented the document to the relevant government officials, including the Interior Ministry, the Chonburi provincial CEO, plus Sontaya Khunpluem, Minister for Tourism and Sports and Purachai Piumsomboon, Deputy Prime Minister, to present the case before parliament.

Tawit said, “We request that the opening and closing times for Pattaya’s entertainment venues be reviewed and categorize the city under two separate issues. First, people 18 years and over should be allowed into discos and pubs. The second issue involves go-go bars and beer bars, of which, in Pattaya, there are over 1,000 where foreign tourists are the major clientele. It would be beneficial to consider zoning that would allow these places to open until 3-4 a.m., or even 24 hours. Even Singapore allows their venues to stay open till 5 a.m.”

Tawit added, “This must be taken up with cabinet and parliamentary members and officials involved in drafting these laws should survey Pattaya for themselves.”

 

[Mrsjvb]

Glad you find them useful - well you have stumbled across one of many inconsistencies, Nightclub/Disco & Pub/Bar. I think the Thai words for these are more differential, but I have no clue either how one defined a place when the terms are so vague. This may lead to descriptions being key in keeping a place open. Same as the only hostesses being specified are female, hence you could assume Gay bars are exempt if you follow their words literally !

 

[Phoebe]

Your re-action on the government's mid-night closing laws on the entertainment industry:

Great ! Now I can sleep peacefully at night. 3%
Hmm...now where can I go after midnight? 6%
What !?! This is ridiculous!!! 91%

 

[Dani D]

Well 4 days to go and still no news on what the hell is going on, RE: the Nation poll the current stats are so one sided it is almost funny - the poll was supposed to end last week but is still going, gotta love the efficiency. I think it would be statistically impossible to make the result anymore emphatic than it currently is as i doubt their system supports decimal places !


New poll posted every Friday
Your re-action on the government's mid-night closing laws on the entertainment industry:

Great ! Now I can sleep peacefully at night. 1%
Hmm...now where can I go after midnight? 3%
What !?! This is ridiculous!!! 96%

 

[Cody j]

Still almost no news about something that will affect all nightlife industry in one week.

However, I talked to a police yesterday and he said 2 o clock when I asked him what time we have to close in Bangla.

 

[Punk Princess]

Just out of interest, I have done a little survey of my own, with friends from around the world. All live in different countries, and most have partaken in the nightlife in SE Asia at some seforum.xxxe. I have previously worked with all these guys, and they are all good players.

Out of 22 surveyed, only 2 had heard about the early closing issue. All responded positively to visiting Thailand even with the early closing times.

So I guess we'll all just have to wait and see where this all takes us.

Steve

 

[brosnanyuen]

From another board:

______________________________________________________________

Spoke with a very high government official yesterday. He stated that it’s all in Thaksin’s hands now. Some shocking comments such as paragraph 3 or 4 that I was not aware of. Only because who this person is, is why I’m repeating it because otherwise I look rather foolish, if something else happens Please remember I’m just repeating what I heard, these are not my opinions or do I necessary agree with every word of the reasoning. Here is his take…

On March 1st..

1. Khun Thaksin could declare that its 2. a.m or even 1 a.m. for everyone. In his opinion 70% chance of that happening. If he does this, expect also the statement that” no NEW entertainment licenses can or will be issued outside the zones.” Thaksin definitely does not want any new places springing up outside the zones.
2. Thaksin could declare midnight for businesses outside the zone and 1. a.m and 2 a.m in the zones as is proposed now. 30% chance for this.
3. Thaksin however can NOT change the zones or add zones. This has already been proclaimed by the King a long time ago and would take six months minimum to add more.
4. The zones themselves can be changed to 3 a.m or even 6 a.m. if the local government such as Pattaya wants longer hours for their zones.
5. The new entertainment law is modern. The previous was written 50 years ago and had many gray areas. This is black and white and should have no police corruption. It’s positive for the businessman as he knows the laws and can follow them.
6. The reason for the zones is so they can control everything. It may look having RCA in the zone is not proper if they are concerned about teenagers welfare but they can keep a eye on them at least here rather than having them spread out through the city. They expect older Thai people will start going to RCA as well and this will help change the atmosphere.
7. If the zoning goes through, expect the properties to skyrocket upwards around the zone. They expect the outer areas of Bangkok to die off in the next three years. More and more people will be attracted to living in areas around the zones.
8. If the zoning goes thru, they expect a minimum of two million people to be effected in the pocketbook and large protests as a result. “It will be a zoo” No matter how large the protest, don’t expect Thaksin to back down like other PM”s in the past. However keep in mind that the government term is ending and their will soon be a new election. On a sidenote heard of a large protest on Friday the 27th being planned.
9. A pub can be open at 6 p.m in the zone and close at 1 a.m. A disco in the zone can open at 9 p.m in the zone and close at 2 a.m.
10. Outside the zone, a disco can be open from 9 p.m to midnight and a pub from 6 p.m. to midnight.

 

[NocturnalWitch]

There should be no confusion over the classification of entertainment venues, it was set out last year by Deputy PM Purachai....

Purachai's night vision:

Entertainment venues with female escorts: 9pm to 2am in designated zones; 9pm to midnight in other areas.


Teahouses with female escorts: 6pm to midnight in all areas.


Massage parlours: 4pm to midnight in designated zones; 6pm to midnight elsewhere.

Karaoke lounges, pubs and discotheques: 6pm to 1am in designated zones; 6pm to midnight elsewhere.


Everything in Patong comes in the last category.....the first category means the 'massageplanete' bars that are mainly visited by Thai's.

Was talking to friends in Tiger complex and disco and police last night, and from March 1st they will impose 1am blanket closing on all Patong - so now you know and until this starts to hurt financially (tax revenues) probably just have to live with it!

 

[owlbeback]

Likewise Steve, very few people that I know that are intending on travelling to Thailand this year was aware of the changes. The press in the UK and USA mentioned it once a just before chinese new year but that was all. Many package tour companies still havent adjusted their nightlife guides in the holiday brochures either. Most tourists (esp repeat tourists) go to thailand expecting a liberal, fun, vibrant nightlife and many people will be shocked this year with the limited opening hours. I think that the impact on the tourist industry will be a slow one as information will take a while to filter back to friends and family etc unless there is greater media coverage of the situation. Give things 6 months to a year for the big decreases to appear in farang tourist numbers.

 

[Sierra]

Time called on early bar closing

Published on Feb 28, 2004


Leave the bar at midnight? Just wait and see.

The government's plan to impose midnight-closing on nightspots outside designated zones from Monday might be postponed or even aborted because of a new draft regulation that maintains the current closing time.

The Interior Ministry yesterday sent the draft ministerial regulation for Cabinet review, possibly next week, said Vichien Chavalit, chief of the Department of Provincial Administration's Investigative and Legal Affairs Bureau.

The draft, which was written under a Cabinet resolution on February 10, sticks to the present closing time stipulated in the latest version of the Entertainment Act, which came into effect on January 13, Vichien said.

This requires that all entertainment venues licensed before January 13 close at 1am, nightclubs and bars must close at 2am, and lounges, tea houses and massage parlours at midnight.

He said that only entertainment venues licensed after January 13 and outside the designated zones would be subject to the midnight-closing time.

There are only three designated entertainment zones in Bangkok - Patpong, New Petchburi, and Ratchadaphisek.

Vichien denied that the draft was a policy reversal for the Ministry. It had pushed for early closing of nightspots as part of its social-order campaign, but the move has come under intense criticism from the night-entertainment industry and disgruntled club-goers.

The guideline for keeping the status quo on closing times came from Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

"The draft follows the Prime Minister's views," Vichien said.

Thaksin said on his weekly radio address on Valentine's Day that the midnight-closing time would not be imposed on businesses that were open before the new rule took effect.

The recent changes in opening hours and zoning policies has left the night-entertainment industry in limbo, with business owners unsure what the new rules would be and what effect they would have.

When contacted by The Nation, several high-ranking metropolitan police officers and owners of major entertainment venues yesterday declined to comment on the issue, saying that they needed to see the final decision from the Cabinet first.

A source in the Metropolitan Police Bureau said that the police would make sure that nightlife businesses strictly comply with the closing time stipulated in the new ministerial regulation.

Phermsak Lilakul

THE NATION

-----------------------

An open and shut case?

Operating times for entertainment venues, subject to Cabinet approval:


Nightclubs and bars: 9pm-2am

Lounges and tea houses: 11am-2pm; 6pm-midnight

Massage parlours: 4pm-midnight

Pubs, discotheques, massageplanetes, restaurants with live bands, and cabarets: 6pm-1am

 

[johnb693]

Sorry, but I think you're totally wrong here.

1. The higher-spending tourists tend to stay more in high-end places owned by multi-national corporations. It's the lower end of the tourist market that use Thai-owned places. I doubt whether it benefits the Thai treasury too much either, a lot of multi-nationals pay their (zero-rate!) tax in the Cayman Is and such places. Still those Thais that used to have profitable businesses can no doubt go & do menial jobs in those corporates.

2. I used to work for the British Tourist Authority and the attitude there too was that they simply weren't interested in the low-end tourists. Then someone actually bothered to do a survey on backpackers and found astonishingly that they spend just as much as the jetsetter family types, but over a longer period and on quite differents goods & services. Cue abrupt change in policy. Most of the wealthier countries actually now try to pull in the low-end market realising it's value.

3. The low-end tourist is often a student, some of whom will become the next generation of wealthy executives. If Thailand doesn't want their dollars now, perhaps it'll make them less likely to want to spend their bigger dollars here in the future.

 

[ladystang]

Zoning, new entertainment operating hours begin March 1

Pattaya hopes to receive special tourism status and gain exemption from new regulations

Suchada Tupchai

The new entertainment laws and zoning regulations are scheduled to come into effect as of March 1. However, there is still much confusion among business operators as to where the zones are and what will be the final word from the government on the amended legislation.

Officials at the Banglamung district office announced that they will begin enforcing the new entertainment laws and zoning regulations beginning March 1. The shaded area of this map represents Pattaya’s entertainment zone.

Officials at the Banglamung district office announced that they will begin enforcing the amended legislation, announced on January 13, as of the first of the month, but there is hope for Thai business operators and employees to overturn the laws that would otherwise put them out of business and cause what they predict will be a major drop off in tourism numbers. They could gain recourse under a clause in the Thai constitution that allows the people to overturn government legislation with 50,000 signatures on a petition, giving them 60 days from the date of announcement to act. Whether it comes to that remains to be seen.

The legislation, proposed by Deputy Prime Minister Purachai Piumsomboom, would have entertainment venues tightly governed concerning operating hours. Under the amended laws, dancing venues or those that provide dancing inside the entertainment zone would be allowed to open from 9 p.m. to 2 a.m., those outside the zone could only operate from 9 p.m. to midnight. Neither is totally acceptable to entertainment venue owners, as 3 hours a day or 5 hours a day is not deemed a sufficient amount of time to successfully operate any business.

Places offering service girls, such as beer bars, would only be able to open from 11 a.m. to 2 p.m. inside the zone. As for Traditional Thai massage venues in the zone, their hours would be restricted from 4 p.m. to 8 p.m., whereas outside the zone they would be able to open at 6 p.m. and close at midnight.

Venues offering live music or shows inside the zone have slightly more leverage by opening at 6 p.m. and closing at 1 a.m., whereas outside the zone such places would close at midnight.

The zone boundaries are as previously outlined in the Pattaya Mail (issue 26, July 29, 2001), and are as follows: the areas on and around Beach Road, 2nd and 3rd Roads from North Pattaya through to Bali High Point in South Pattaya to be classified as an entertainment business zone. The boundaries of this zone would be the beach on one side, through to and including up to 50 meters west (towards the beach) of 3rd Road. The northern boundary of this zone would start 50 meters south of North Pattaya Road from the Dolphin Roundabout up to 3rd Road and in the Naklua area would be 100 meters to the west (ocean side) of Pattaya-Naklua Road through to 50 meters on the other side of Pattaya- Naklua Road from Dolphin Roundabout to Soi 13 (Wongamat). Entertainment businesses would be allowed to operate inside this 150 meter wide stretch of land.

Banglamung officials have questioned business operators as to the amendments to legislation, and most are saying that such stringent measures are inappropriate for Pattaya as a tourist town, particularly on the issue of operating times, with others pointing out that license registration fees are far too overpriced. Such implementation would effectively destroy their business.

One person, who prefers to enjoy the city’s nightlife told reporters, “Regardless of the social order campaign and the emphasis on impinging stringent rules on the youth, they will still do what they want, whether it be at home or at a hotel. The legislation doesn’t solve the problem they (the government) are aiming at. Crime inevitably remains at the same rate, if not higher. The zoning issue will just create traffic problems within the zone, the whole thing is ridiculous and will definitely affect tourism.”

Some parents are, however, in favor of the idea of keeping their children away from such places and bringing order to the populace.

Taking the matter from his position, Sontaya Khunpluem, minister for tourism and sports has approached the Interior Ministry to exclude major tourist centers around the country where large numbers of foreign tourists are known to visit. These include Phuket, Pattaya, Chiang Mai and Koh Samui. The plea bargain is that these are major tourist centers and as such require special status.

The final outcome remains yet to be finalized. Perhaps in the coming weeks there will eventually be some decisions made on a business level not a puritanical one.

 

[leons1701]

Purachai's early-closing plan slammed

Published on Feb 29, 2004


Thai Rak Thai MPs from Bangkok yesterday blamed Deputy Prime Minister Purachai Piumsombun for pushing through an impractical and overzealous early-closing policy, even though his popularity remains undiminished among residents who want him to stand for governor.

Patarasak Osatanukroh said he would ask Purachai about the entertainment industry business hours at Tuesday's meeting for party MPs. So far, the closing times have been decided by high-level policymakers, leaving Bangkok MPs in the dark as to details.

He said he wanted to know the particulars so he could explain the new regulations to his constituents when they ask him, adding that he personally disagreed with the policy as it would spell problems for the entertainment industry.

Pramon Khanakasem said Singapore used to have entertainment establishments close two hours earlier at midnight and lost a lot of tourists and income as a result. The island-state had to move the closing time to 4am, which led to more revenue growth.

The Singaporean government earnestly observes zoning, and has turned a row of old shop houses into a street of entertainment outlets.

"It's too late for our government to enforce zoning because built-up areas are distributed unevenly. Tourists visit the Khao San area in droves, but even though the locality offers only dining facilities it will have to close at midnight. A-go-go bars in the red-light district of Patpong get to stay open to 1am. This leaves us at a loss as to which segment of the tourism industry the government wants to boost," he said.

Pitipong Temjaroen, who is an aide to Purachai, said entertainment venues needed a new legal definition. "Legal measures should not send guys onto the street and into trouble, but should address underage access to night spots and drug problems. We should return to square one. And this has nothing to do with fears of mobs gathering. We simply want to put miscreant businesses in order."

Addressing the confusion over whether the ministerial regulations apply to old nighteries, Pitipong said the law regulating high-rise buildings on the beach applied to new buildings only, not existing ones. "But massageplanetes should not admit unaccompanied minors."

He said most of his colleagues disapproved of the restricted hours, which have been widely protested against.

rtainment workers, businessmen, taxi and tuk-tuk drivers and others dependent on the industry for their livelihoods.

The entertainment rules are never raised as topics of discussion in the party, he said, adding that the midnight lock-up is too unrealistic and may lead to general protests. He said the government had already been on the receiving end of mobs protesting such issues as bird flu, unrest in the South, and power plants.

Pitipong took a dim view of Purachai for never coming forth with a definite yes or no to the suggestion that he run for governor. This made it hard for Bangkok MPs to give their curious constituents a satisfactory answer.

Purachai is the favourite as a candidate for city governor among Bangkok MPs, but some criticise him for being too aloof. He is, however, well liked by residents as a candidate for Bangkok governor.

 

[ShadowsWithin]

As has been mentioned on many occasions (!) This campaign by the government is nothing to do with tourists, it is to do with social order upon Thai youth. Ironic as today they have refused to ban mobile phone use in vehicles as it would impact people's freedoms (!) I wonder who owns the largest mobile phone company in Thailand who would lose precious Baht from people not using their phones whilst driving (Ho Hum)

 

[pFREDq]

Bangkok Post - Social Order Campaign

Nightspots in Hat Yai want own night zone

Massage parlours say they will also be hurt

Vichayant Boonchote

Operators of nightspots in Hat Yai have called on the government to declare their areas nightlife zones, saying midnight closing would deal a heavy blow to their businesses.

Sorachak Joothong, president of the Entertainment Places Operators' Association of Thailand, said the association has lodged a letter with Deputy Prime Minister Chavalit Yongchaiyudh asking the government to allow nightspots inside and outside specified nightlife zones to stay open until 2 am. It also wanted the government to declare all areas in Hat Yai nightlife zones similar to Pattaya and Phuket.

He said the early closing of nightspots would badly affect many entertainment-related businesses such as nightspots, restaurants featuring musical performance and karaoke shops. About 200 entertainment places were inside the nightlife zones while about 300-400 were outside the zone.

At least one billion baht was circulating in these entertainment businesses, said Mr Sorachak.

From March 1, all nightspots inside specified nightlife zones must close at 1 am while those outside the zone must close at midnight.

Mr Sorachak said the early closing time would drive away foreign customers.

Hat Yai was a popular entertainment venue which attracted a large number of tourists, particularly from Malaysia and Singapore.

About 1.2 million foreign tourists visited the town annually.

''Hat Yai is known among tourists as a paradise of entertainment. Most tourists travel to the town to visit nightspots and other entertainment places. The early closing time will adversely affect the entertainment and tourism businesses here,'' said the association chairman.

Hat Yai, which had no natural tourist attractions like other provinces, would turn into a quiet town after the new closing time was enforced, he said. Many entertainment businesses would be forced to shut down and hundreds of employees would be left jobless, he added.

Thepparit Ammarapitak, a musician at Submarine pub in Hat Yai, said the early closing time would hurt musical bands as they would be left only a few hours to perform their music. Their incomes would also drop.

Before nightspots were allowed to stay open until 3-4 am, he could play music at 3-4 pubs a night and earned more than 30,000 baht a month.

Ms Noi, 24, who worked at a massage parlour in Hat Yai, said the early closing time of nightspots and massage parlours would affect women working in this business.

Before the social order campaign was strictly enforced, she could provide services to 6-7 customers a night and earned tens of thousand baht a month. If the midnight closing was enforced, her income would drop as she may get only one customer per night.

''If massage parlours are closed at midnight, I have to look for customers outside my workplace and risk being caught like other sex workers in Bangkok hunting for customers along main roads,'' she said.