How do busts occur?

[princess(:]

I had a girl ask me recently "did you fnd out about me on internet". When I said no she said "good all those guys are pigs" and went on at length about guys who don't understand the word no.

Posts here encourage otherwise shy or reasonable people to do and try unreasonable things. YMMV isn't the standard anymore, these guys show up expecting YMWMMM (your mileage will match my mileage). Girls get frustrated, and whatever special extra you might have gotten because you are a nice guy is lost because someone who read your tell all post screwed it up.

Discretion. It makes things better for everyone.

MATt

 

[Save the wolves.]

MaTt,

Unfortunately no matter how many times you say the same thing (and I think you have in this thread 3-4 times for good measure), discretion is incapable of being legislated or mandated. The few always spoil it for the many. Regrettably, in the realm of massage, you do get the hobbyists who are probably generally more shy then those seeing escorts, and they are artificially emboldened by the posts of the many indiscrete individuals you are trying to speak to with your repeated warnings. I don't think they are hearing you, MATt. These are guys who like the thrill of posting to brag about the extra mileage they got. They hobby for one reason and one reason only: the cheap thrill of in their minds having gotten something for nothing. IMHO, this attitude is far more prevalent in the massage realm at the lower prices of that realm, then it is in the escort realm, although it is present there as well with some of the SW hobbyists (even some who are respected, I might add, who have admitted to me the thrill they enjoy of thinking they are getting something for nothing).

I laud your efforts, MatT, but I do believe that they will fall on deaf ears and prove to be utterly fruitless.

 

[Fireflies]

I remember a time when it was a pleasant surprise to get "extra" at the end of a massage session and not even get charged for it. MPs used to show signs of tenderness.... and libido, just because they felt like it... or because they liked me. I even had FS with one.... but it was something that just happened. She liked me,we had a good rapport and life just took care of itself.

LE, although a major consideration (who wants that kind of attention?) is not the only issue. I have had MPs get upset because I didn't ask for "extra".I used to tell them I wasn't there for that. What I wanted was a good massage, along with perhaps a little affection.... but not a handjob or sex, necessarily. "If you give me extra" I used to say... "it's because you like me and you want to do it" but don't expect money from me if I don't ask for it. Of course, the extra twenty was given on many occasions, as an "extra" reward..... like tipping at a restaurant, they used to tell me.

Today, it's hard to go for a massage without the focus being on teasing and the finish. It's a nice extra, as is anything beyond that (given out of pleasure and desire, not because it's expected, or offered as part of a menu), but when a real massage is what you want, it's hard to know where to go. I agree, SPs should stay out of the massage parlours. Pleasant surprises notwithstanding.

 

[Nancy L]

DAK, Toronto has always had problems with "self respect". Remember back in the days before totally legalized lap dances, you could go into clubs in Toronto and for $20 a song get full digital insertion IN FRONT OF EVERYONE without issue. Girls were treated like pieces of meat, and it downgraded the entire strip club experience as a result. To this day, Toronto's strip clubs have not returned to the quality and fun that they were like before that horrible period.

MP went down a similar road. In Toronto it is easy to get half and half (you massage the girl, she massages you) full reverse (you massage her only) and pretty much the whole scale of services up to and sometimes including FS - and often with the prices quoted to you right at the door.

If you want a good massage in Toronto, then leave and go to another city. If you want a sexual adventure named "massage" then Toronto is fine for you.

But I will tell you FOR SURE the girls are for the most part jaded, money grubbing SPs hiding out in MPs for cover, and it isn't really very much fun.

You can have it if you want it... I go to Toronto every couple of weeks on business and I never get a massage there. The attitude is too cynical, the girls are worn out like door mats, and the whole attitude sucks. What is coming in Montreal appears to be the same horrible pattern.

MATt

 

[pictureperfect]

DAK, I will even accept marginally trained but nice girls that make me relax, pass a pleasant hour, and then give me a little pleasure at the end (or not). I really get no joy going into a place (like 58xx monk) where the girl basically walks in and runs a menu at you. I paid for a massage, now get to work already.

Because the SPs are hiding in the MPs, it is a total crap shoot as to what you might get going in the door. Going into a new place getting 45 seconds of massage (sorry gentle rubbing with way too much oil) followed by immediate turn over and sales pitch just ain't my style and ain't what I headed to an MP for. If I was interested in a BJTC or FS, I would go to an escort - at least I am confident I will get what I am looking for and have longer that 4 minutes to do it in.

I understand that some people have urges and desires and I am not denying them the right to go get it, but realistically, if the "massage" is judged by the number of digits inserted or the % of penetraion during the BJ then your not really a massage fan, now are you?

MATt

 

[Jessica H]

It's more like 0$... I frequented Elite for a few years, and another place I won't mention.... the girls there told me they got no money for the massage. They rely on extras.... it's unfortunate. They are so cynical about it too. To them it means nothing, it's just business.

I think it's too bad. I almost feel like i have to let them finish me, when half the time, all I really want is a good solid massage. Mind you, that's exactly what I got tonight (see my review of Sophia at Leonel).

 

[noelleybelly]

woodworker, if a girl lets slip that they are not getting paid by the owner at all for work (in other words, the $50-$60 an hour you paid went 100% to the owner, not to the girl) then I would say "STOP GOING TO THIS PLACE". That situation is forcing the girls to do extras to make a living, and that really isn't a good way to do things.

I think the average real MP rub and tug girl would be happy to make $20-$25 from the house and an extra $20 "tip" for simple end of massage joy. 5-8 clients per day $200-$350 per day cash isn't bad income. Some girls want to make $100-$150 an hour, but really most of them are SPs that either can't bring themselves to admit they are working girls or are hiding out in MP land trying to avoid getting arrested.

You see what is going on, you can adjust your wants to make it work better for you.

MATt

 

[Laura _*_ xO]

Hi Man
On this subject I think you are very wrong,when I want a small massage with lots of sensuality I go to mps with spas which I know for a fact that the girls are not paid, and rarely but very rarely get extras ,and when I do usualy a couple of weeks later the girl is not there any more.NOW when I want a decsent massage I go to smaller places russians,chinees or even quebequer owned places where the girls get paid approx, $20 per client by the mp, 90% of the time I get very very high milage, in these places,and I think because usually there customers are cheaper so they have to put out more to get more $$$$$$
Fansie places where girls don't get paid average tip =$60 to $100

Small places where girls get paid average tips = $80 to $150

figure your maths where the EXTRAS are and who gets more $$$$ .

 

[Pompal 09.]

eatme, the difference is often in approach and methods, not in the class of the place. Many upscale places charge more and pay the girls well (higher end about $25 an hour) and the girls have less interest in making extras. Some lower end places are set up specifically to make extras, which is exactly what we are talking about here.

Not paying the girl to do the massage means she is way more likely to do extras and grub for money to pay the bills. These are the girls trying to get $60 for hj $100 for topless hj, etc. Those rates are unrealistic - however the acts they are performing are, well, borderline acceptable in modern society.

What is more problematic is those girls who walk into the room, at the nice place or the dump, and recite a laundry list of "extras" for your enjoyment. First off, they are coming nasty close to solicitation, and more importantly, they are coming close to turning the location into a common bawdy house.

At the end of the day, the girls doing rub and tug work (possibly up to showing a little skin to win) are all working on the "good" side of things. LE has many better things to do that try to figure out what might have happened in 5 minutes at the end of a rub down. What they will work harder against is places they feel have become defacto bordellos. They will work dilligently to remove them when they are aware of them. This forum is a great place for first notice.

Did you see that a girl asked eforum.xxx to remove all her reviews, and threads related to her? Think about it for a minute.

MATt

 

[Jackieena]

They are busting these massage parlors for other reasons (bawdy house laws). In Canada, prostitution is legal. What is illegal is solicitation, living off the avails of prostitution, and being found in a bawdy house.

 

[asambrano752]

I have honestly started to wonder if massageplus isn't a honeypot operation, run by police to get a grip on the girls, the clients, and such. Rather than bust you outright, they could use this as a source of information that let's them get a better grip on the whole situation.

IMHO, it is an obvious bawdy house, and I am not sure why it still runs without intervention.

MATt

 

[Pompal 09.]

One of the ex-masseuse at Massage plus worked at sexy4u for a short period. And that place provided bare back sex with the proper payments. Some girls should have taken sick leave as they recover but did not and continued on. Not to mention that they advertise more than Paris Hilton would for her burgers. Of course, the ex-masseuse no longer works there.
They have gone down the minute a police officer shows up and simply declare out of business.

 

[Caryn]

and massageplus is a racist organization. I went there once and they refused to service blackmen. I literally got denied by every woman, and its not because I'm fugly. They simply said Sorry sir, but none of our girl service blackmen. We should boycott this place.

 

[princess like kitty]

Yes, or you could sue them.. Isn't that illegal?

Sadie

 

[Nicki]

I don't think police 'bust into' the place like that. I think that they ask the workers how much money they want for a particular service, and they say 'if I give you this much, what can I get for this' or something like that. If they reply 'I want this much money for doing this' then its solicitation. Prostitution is legal, solicitation isn't. Also, generally, prostitution is not legal at an incall centre, then its called a bawdy house.

Sadie

 

[dukemack]

Sadie: You're right about the legal status of sollicitation vs prostitution.

However, once the tenure of a bawdy house has been established through undercover investigative work, LE will indeed "bust" the place, close it and arrest whoever (providers and clients) are in the premises at that time, whether they are "caught in the act" or not.

BTW Sadie, you have an interesting music video link as a signature...did you put it there just because you like it or is there any other significance for you?

Lion Heart

 

[jaipeep]

The masseuses are not trained as such. Look at the receptionnist, she details the menu before you get there.