Talking with MT

[laineyette]

I have a general question about conversation boundaries with MTs.

I had my first massage a few months back and have been with the same MT since with sessions every 1-2 weeks. All has gone well except for I feel that the conversations are extremely one-sided...she asks...I answer.

I understand about client/therapist boundaries but sometimes feel that the one-sidedness of the conversations gets in the way of fully relaxing.

She is a newly licensed therapist so I'm not sure if it will just take her time to warm up and know what she should or should not discuss with clients.

I'm not looking for deep, personal converstaions but merely the normal chit-chat you have with any other professional, i.e. how long have you lived in the area, do you have any pets or hobbies, etc.

As a counter-example, I also am a client of a acupuncturist. She freely talks about her boat, her dogs, her music, etc. Nothing ever too deep or revealing but just that type of talk so when we bump into each other on the street, the "Hi, how are you?" doesn't revolve around treatments.

I was just wondering if the general consensus of either MTs (or perhaps schools teaching MT) is that you should never reveal peronal information to a client. I know there is a always a balance between what should and should not be revealed.

Thanks.

 

[S. Parkmen]

Welcome to MassagePlanetL Hedge, I hope you find our conversations interesting and informative to you.

As to your question regarding chit-chat in the therapist's room, where I went to school we were told that we should keep our personal info to a minimum. Commonalities such as the dog or the kids between client and therapist is one thing, but to have the therapist use the time to talk about more personal issues, i.e. problems with family, work issues, ect. are definitely a no-no. The reasoning behind this is due to the session becoming time for the therapist to unload on the client, which is absolutely not to be done. The time that the client is on the table is time for the client, not the therapist.

There are other examples of this in the medical field, prime example would be seeing a psychologist. How would you feel if you went to one to talk about your issues and wound up talking about his? Client/therapist boundries should always be respected by both parties, and the lead in that area should always be by the therapist. An excellent book to read about such issues, if you are interested, is a book called The Educated Heart. It discusses such issues and others where it concerns massage therapists and body workers.

Hope that answers your question. 8)

 

[dashhound_91]

It depends on the therapist. Some are more chit chatty and some are not. I can swing either way depending on the client. Some clients want to talk for a while in the begining, some the whole way through, and some not at all.

Christine

 

[KaTx]

i go with the flow.
if the client wants to chat, i chat.
if they don't, i don't.
if it is a new client, i may chat for up to 15 minutes. i do alot of tourist work.
so i'm asking, what brings you to town? how long are you staying? what do you do back home? i ask because i want to understand how you use your body on a daily basis. etc.

welcome to the bord t039

 

[Savannah]

Thanks for your replies. I think it may just take time for my MT to grow into her confort level with conversations and I agree, I'm not looking to hear about her personal issues.

Just part of my upbringing was to always respond back in kind when being asked questions. (This, of course does not apply to questions during the intake phase or when discussing aches, pains, problems, etc.) An example of the exchanges during our first session went something like this...
MT : How about a week from Friday.
Me : Sorry, I'll out of town travelling that day.
MT : Oh, where are you going?
Me : I'm going to ....... How about the next Friday?
MT : Oh, I'm sorry. I'll be travelling that day.
Me : Where are you going?
MT : (Silent pause). How about Tuesday instead?

When talking to other friends who also get massages (different MTs), they hve also noticed that theirs are also hesitant to talk. Again, just wasn't sure if it part of the boundary setting portion taught in schools.

As far as a psychiatrist discussing personall issues on my time, I agree it's not what would be acceptable. Yet, I have been able to have conversations with my doctors and they have talked about their children, pasttimes, etc. Not with any deep or personal information but enough to relate on a one-to-one basis.

 

[punapetteri]

thehedge,

I agree with you, I like to connect with people and when other professionals clam up after asking me things I get irritated. My MT is a short answer person, too, and it does aggrevate me.

I live in a relatively small town, everyone knows everyone, it's a "family" town, people ask about families. Community members like to know each other and chit chat. I am starting to embrace those qualities and set new boundaries that I am more comfortable with now than when I first started my business. It is quite a fine line to create boundaries that let people know me, but still establish myself as a health professional and a serious business person.

Ultimately I hope to connect with all people and meet them where they are in life, allow myself to be known, and continue on my path as a serious business person and therapist.

Best wishes!

 

[zaza]

i go with the flow.
if the client wants to chat, i chat.
if they don't, i don't.
if it is a new client, i may chat for up to 15 minutes. i do alot of tourist work.
so i'm asking, what brings you to town? how long are you staying? what do you do back home? i ask because i want to understand how you use your body on a daily basis. etc.

I'm with mush, I work in a tourist area as well. At certain times I laugh to myself because working with the tourists so much you can sometimes feel like you're part MT and part Tour Guide... LOL
But since they are in my area for only a brief time, they want to know where to go for lunch or dinner, what sights to see, where the good shops are, etc.

 

[Freddy P]

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WARNING: This post is hypermegasuperultra-verbose, and contains higher than acceptable levels of redunancy. This message is long. In a manner that has been deemed redundant, this post is long and contains many words, some of them unessesary on account of having already been said. This post is also too long because some things are repeated.

Reader discretion, is advised.
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Every time I started getting chatty with a client, I felt I was talking way too much about myself. It's really easy for me to go on and on about myself, because I'm so into that subject.

Following that, I'm a really selfish, self-centered person, it would appear. I'm learning. I don't really care to hear about people's personal lives, in general or on the table. Just the basics to let me know what kind of person they are, a gist on their attitudes, and how they use their bodies. I'm struggling with this because it's how I am, yet I percieve an expectation that I should care, and I don't. Not trying to be blunt for being blunts sake only, I just honestly don't care. Sometimes this worries me, but I don't kill myself over it. When people go on and on about themselves, I really truly wonder why they are telling me, and more importantly and puzzlingly (haha) why they think I would want to know any of it. Honestly, I really wonder why people think I would care that their dog ate whatever and their mom is visiting and blah blah blah.

Does that mean I have no business being a therapist? I'm trying to answer that for myself. Other therapist's thoughts are welcomed but only those applicants selected for an interview will be contacted.

Again, even as I say this, I feel like I'm saying too much. Basicly, I'm reconsidering whether I'm ready at this seforum.xxxe to treat other people. I have very little people skills, and have a huge chip on my shoulder about several issues. I'm confrontational without knowing why. When I meet someone I trust and like, I open up way too far. I lack an exterior shield I guess. For some it is really easy to do, but for me every single thing peirces me to my center. This is double-edged, the good gets in really well (I can enjoy trees like no other)_ but so does the bad: a barking dog or loud screaming talk makes me livid, and I don't know why I can't just let it be. It gets to me, I'm defenseless. It's like it disturbs my inner peace, and I feel helpless.

Not very Zen, I know. It's my philosphy, I'm just not good at it yet. NOt that it matters. But you see, already I've divulged WAY too much. This is so easy to do. And it's even worse while treating.

Your therapist is new, give her a break. You have no idea (rightly so, of course) what it's like to put yourself next to people that close, and try to help them. It's not like chatting with your doctor, he is safe behind protocol and superiority. He can say what he likes because he is not making himself vulerable for even a second. You have no idea as a layperson about drugs or whatever he is considering. However, you certainly have an idea about touching and about how you feel about touching and how you feel in general. This is our turf.

There is an inherent power differential in the therapeutic relationship (essay-babble, sorry). It is necessary for the functioning of the relationship. People have a notion of chatting like ordinary people, but we are not ordinary people talking. We are one person asking for help, and another trying to provide it. This is much different, and must be respected.

Without overly trying to back-up my point here and make a solid case for this, let me say this: the therapist is putting themselves out there way more than the client. shocking, I know. It's because of expectations. We all accept the people for however it is that they are, there is no expectation that they be any particular way. On the other side, there are huge expectations of what the therapist should do/be. We expect them (rightly so, of course) to be competetant and caring, essentially.

When someone gives you a massage, it is way more personal than you imagine. It combines what they intuitively just do, with varying degrees of therapeutic analysis. The story spoken by their hands is immensely personal: it is direct, pure output of their being, on all levels, modulated by analysis. (All discriminations between levels of being are artificial and intended for entertainment purposes only - Zen disclaimer) Nothing exists but the Mind, and the Mind that exists, is not the real Mind. Words are useless, stop reading.

haha, I'm so annoying. Where was I. Yeah, anyway, a therapist is putting themselves out there allot, no need to further this with more talk of themselves. The treatment is about the client, not the therapist. Although, as I said above, in realitiy, the entire treatment is entirely the therapist, you dig? Expectations are the reverse however.

And finally, people are just people, and want to talk, this is natural and there is nothing wrong with it. I reserve the right to reserve myself. If a client is put off by this, they are wrong, and yet I still suffer anyway because they leave. Oh well. Nothing is fair, especially the tyranny of the ignorant.

Back to my dilemma. If I don't like people, why is there even a dilemma, you ask. Well, it's not that I don't like people, it's that I don't buy their bs. Yet they cling to it like life itself, so what am I to do? People believe their own bs, and I refuse to take my own bs, or myself, seriously. So what can I do? Sounds like I'm putting allot of expectations on people eh? That's the third chip from the left on my right shoulder; go ahead just knock it off, I know you want to, go ahead, knock it off. haha.

Oh, and the other part of the dilemma is that I'm extroardinairly gifted at massage. *ahem* But just the technical massage part, and the intuitive flow part. Just not the part where there's that other person there that I have to contend with. So, I don't know what to do. I need more people skills I guess, maybe in a few years, if I'm a little more mature, it will come naturally. Maybe massage will help speed that up if I work at it. Who knows.

I hope that answers your question. Did you see how I went on and on, and you couldn't care less? You really don't want your time on the table to consist of the therapist's blah blah blah, trust me. Sounds like yours is erring a little too far on the side of caution, but she needs that to stay healthy. Granted, a little chit chat would be okay, but details, no. You can't look at your therapist as just some other regular person. They are entrusted with allot of details about you, personal things about your body and whatever. To do this important job, they need boundaries to stay mentally healthy. That is all, don't feel slighted by it, she needs that to live, literally.

Bumping on the street should consist of a nod and a hello, that's it. No conversation whatsoever. We are not friends, despite illusions to the contrary. We are client and therapist, let it be as such.

Don't know what more to say, other than the therapeutic relationship is not a friendship, by trying to make it both it fails to be either.

But I understand how a client is vulnerable, and part of letting down the guard is ascertaining the relative safety of doing so. (You know it's a good day when you get to use "ascertain"- anyone remember that Kids in the Hall sketch?) And I understand this requires a little input from the therapist, so they aren't a stranger at least. Too much of this undermines their ability to actually be a therapist, however. The end result is indeed a balance between sharing and withholding. To be balanced though (against these other factors I've mentioned), the actual zero point is much further to one side than you may think. It's not in the middle, where friendships are. This is by design, and that's all there is to it.

I really hope my endless babbling has helped in some way.

The way to achieve what you need is to pursue it's inverse. In all matters that matter, this is the course to take. Upon closer inspection, these are loafers.

PearlBlack

 

[Pompal 09.]

I think it all depends on the therapist

I've been to a lot of massage therapists, and had a ton of different ways they have talked or not talked in the massage. One of the therapists doesn't talk during the massage, but before and after we've actually had some fairly deep conversations, and she actually is very open about her life and things that are going on, much more than any therapist I know. It's kind of nice in that she seems to act on the same level as you and makes you feel more comfortable. You feel like she cares about you rather than just being a number like at a doctor's office. I have another therapist at the chiro who always talks the whole time, has a good sense of humor, and often asks me kind of personal questions about my life (that is just the way she is). While I find the questions a little prying that is the way she is so I just laugh it off. Then there is other massage therapist who is very business-like...basically you clock in and clock out, she says a few distance hellos and that is it. And I have had some therapists who don't hardly say a word, but give great massages. Some dress business like, some dress in scrubs, some dress in shorts, a t-shirt, and no shoes. Part of it all depends on how comfortable they are with you, also.

Long story short, I don't think there is a right or a wrong answer, and you have to go with whom you feel the most comfortable.

 

[Tasha]

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I don't really care to hear about people's personal lives, in general or on the table. Just the basics to let me know what kind of person they are, a gist on their attitudes, and how they use their bodies. I'm struggling with this because it's how I am, yet I percieve an expectation that I should care, and I don't. Not trying to be blunt for being blunts sake only, I just honestly don't care. Sometimes this worries me, but I don't kill myself over it. When people go on and on about themselves, I really truly wonder why they are telling me, and more importantly and puzzlingly (haha) why they think I would want to know any of it. Honestly, I really wonder why people think I would care that their dog ate whatever and their mom is visiting and blah blah blah.

Does that mean I have no business being a therapist?

What follows is strictly my gut reaction and my own opinion...

I think that if you honestly don't care about what your clients have to say, even about their personal lives, you may want to rethink being a therapist. Part of our job as therapists is to facilitate healing and relaxation/release, and for many clients, talking IS their release. Clients are not stupid, they'll be able to sense if you're not "there" with them and that you don't care, and for those whom talking is important, they won't come back. Now some people may not care, they just want to go to sleep for an hour and relax and have no interest in conversation. They want in and then out. With these clients, you'll be fine. But I have to wonder why you REALLY got into this profession if you don't honestly care? My clients will make small-talk as well, and while it may or may not be the most interesting thing, I listen attentively and respond when appropriate, trying to walk the balance between a clam and a blabbermouth. Some of my own experiences on the table involved some of the most profound releases in my life, and many of those were facilitated by an open and present therapist being attentive and genuinely caring about the body and soul on her table.

Just my random impromptu thoughts...
Peace,
~Jyoti

 

[Ben Dover]

Talking with MT

I have a general question about conversation boundaries with MTs.

that the conversations are extremely one-sided...she asks...I answer.

i.e. how long have you lived in the area, do you have any pets or hobbies, etc.

If you want to know, ask...it would be rude of her to not answer. I don't talk to my clients once they are on the table unless they talk firstly.

 

[? we voted for pedro ?]

Some therapists have concerns, or actual experience, with clients intruding into their personal lives, stalking, or otherwise providing unwelcome contact or demands.
These therapists will tend to limit the amount of personal information they give out.
Questions about where they are going on holiday may be innocent to you but to others a means of intrusion.
Others will simply believe that the session is about the client and that their own "stuff" has no place in the session.

I personally tend to take a middle course, talk where it seems appropriate, silence where that is needed, open about my life but not about personal stuff.
Jeff

 

[not important]

My question came basically out of my on personal issues, where, without getting into all the details, it's taken many years for me to be able to openand trust other people. My concern with my MT is while I'm trying to relax, either before the session or on the table, there are times when something she does or asks makes me want to ask her a similar question. (And I'm talking the general conversational questions, not the probing psychie type questions.) Now when I feel that I have to start debating whether to ask or not, it takes me out of that relaxation phase. I am willing to continue working with her since she has helped me alot since we started. I am also willing to give her some slack since she is new.

Just wanted to throw this out there because I'm sure there are others that feel the same way. I also understand (and appreciate) that your jobs be nature are much intimate and personal than visiting a doctor or dentist and may require more of that boundary setting. I can tell, despite her hesitancy to talk, that she does care and is interested in my well-being. I would be able to sense if she didn't care (as another posted) and would not return if that was the case.

Thansk again for your opinions. It has been helpful.

 

[Milou]

Talking with MT

I have a general question about conversation boundaries with MTs.

that the conversations are extremely one-sided...she asks...I answer.

i.e. how long have you lived in the area, do you have any pets or hobbies, etc.

If you want to know, ask...it would be rude of her to not answer. I don't talk to my clients once they are on the table unless they talk firstly.

It is generally my policy too not to speak with my clients after the massage has started unless they speak first. However, I sometimes make an exception with first-time clients especially when I sense that they have something they want to tell me. I also like to check in with the client too right after they turn over on the table just to see if they have any feedback for me and also to make sure that they are satisfied with the level of pressure that they are receiving.

 

[FrEe BiRd]

Blackpearl:

I feel pretty much the same as you do about everything you said.
I probably would write something like that if I had that many words in me

Your writing makes the point of talking too much very well :
Very nicely composed.

Having that as a basic way of being does for me not exclude listening.
I have always had people speaking to me about the most personal things.
I listen and they speak and they are very pleased with that.
As I am not a psychologist I do not dive very deeply into their internal issues, I listen and might ask a follow up question. Let them speak their minds. Give them a go ahead and speak more comment.
They get my full attention, I do not talk on the phone, wander off or have a snack. Full focus in the time allowed, and sometimes a few minutes more.

Mostly i just ask them what their goals are for today or where it hurts, how long etc. Things related to understaning the problem at hand.

I do "talk" with clients. Mostly though I get a feeling that they want to talk about themselves , if speak too much about myself without being asked, I can almost feel them pulling back. Even if they do ask, sometimes it breaks their thread and they go quiet. So adjusting to the individual is important, most of the time less about me seems to the right thing.

Another consideration is your own health. If you let everything in you will eventually burn out, some distance is needed when treating others.