(((((( Amy the magic hands )))))))

She's got a gravelly voice, which has very little to do with her appearance. Some of the nicest looking women on this planet are cursed or blessed with this type of voice; Lauren Bacall for one...
 
Excellent tips... Increases the YMMV in my humble opinion.
 
SM: When are you going to fix your problem with the sig?

What size, not sure as it was 20 years ago. LOL. Let me just say, more than a mouthfull, but then I have a very big mouth, or some would say.

Yes, little gifts are always a good idea. The first time I brought a pair of thigh-highs and she loved then. Then, the next day it was something different, but she also insisted on wearing the thigh-highs. Sometimes you just cannot please these ladies.
 
I would fix it right away if I could.
I've tried and found it impossible to edit or delete my sig.

At the bottom of my reply or post I try to remember to click OFF the Show your Signature box before or I reply, but sometimes I forget...
 
Many guys do not understand that a small gift can result in much greater mileage. In my case, after the first day's R & T, I made arrangements for the full meal deal the next day and that is when I showed up with the thigh-highs. From her reaction to these, I suspect that she does not have the usual assortment of lingerie like many SP's. She liked putting them on for me and I like the change in attitude that came out of it. But, that is not to say that she had a bad attitude on the first day. Just that on Days 2 & 3, it was a lot better.


I have a tiny Vietnamese girl I see often in SF and I always bring her some sort of lingerie, but never something that will impede my progress when we get down to business. Last time I saw her I brought a pair of sheer white pantyhose and had her wear her sexy, white nurse's uniform I have seen hanging in her closet.Nothing more, nothing less. She thinks it is cute that I want her to keep both on during the session, only un-buttoning the front a little.

Let me just add, you guys have it so great with the ladies available in Vancouver that the only thing that might improve it would be the addition of many Vietnamese. This is the one area that SF has it all over you, with about 8 downtown Viet AMP's and numerous independents.
 
So, how much do these "small gifts" cost?
Is it cheaper if we buy them bulk? ;)
Can I just go and get a dozen of something and keep it in my trunk?
 
Why would the price matter when you are going to be paying $.2 or more? Besides, it is not the cost, but the thought that matters.

Some items that have gotten me good results: Nylons and lingerie, candy (but, never for Chinese or most Asians, I would expect--better dried fruit or a nice fruit basket), flowers, but that is what most guys would bring, so try to be original, creative.

I once brought little lady a jar of raspberry jam and before the session I asked her to bring a spoon into the room. Imagine her surprise when I showed her all the ways you can eat the stuff. One of my most fun sessions ever.

Or, you could go to your friendly Wal-Mart and bring the blue-lite special. That might impress her. YMMV.
 
Had just visited Amy & not sure if the info I read here were correct?
Perhap YMMV but mine was massage only.
In fact, it was only my back side & she did not even ask me to turn over.
She was very talkative when I started talking to her about her dogs.
2 big German Shepherds barking frequently.
Massage was OK but nothing special, no happy ending for me.
She's there alone, does not live with parents, only live with older sister & she's away.
She's definitely in her 30's & quite small in size.
IMHO, Maggie at Joyce Station is better but also costs more.
 
Sorry guys but I tried looking up the ad using CL Search for "604.295" and Amy and all the incorrect spellings as outlined on the initial posting but have had no luck finding her ad.

Could someone please PM her contact info or at least post up a link and/or the last four digits of her number. The first six numbers don't seem to help.

TIA
Hugo
 
Hugo. I checked threads that you've started and none are reviews.
Not even short ones that you once promised.
I'll pm you Amy's # if you do a review...
 
You may not find it because she's taking some time off (as mentioned previously).

No point advertising when you're not even around, right?

*As the following poster has stated, she continues to advertise. Must be rolling in it...*
 
Amy has another ad this morning, 9:16AM.


Chinese Massage by AMY**

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Reply to: see below
Date: 2008-03-27, 9:16AM PDT


I am specialized in Chinese massape technigues including--pressing,nipping,stepping and twisting.

Please call me to try a new adventure--604.295.xxxx



Some have been asking for the contact number, saying they can find nothing. I just did the "604.295" in the search box and got two hits for Amy, one today and one two days ago.

A lesson for all: When searching on C/L, it is most important that you are searching the forum where the info is located. It would do no good to plug in her number in the "boats for sale" forum, would it?

There seems to be some doubt that I received the service I claim to have received. It happened, twice. Now what I cannot attest to is whether or not there is more than one "Amy" at the location. I am about 3 weeks removed from my 3 visits with her, but when I was there, what I said happened, happened. Nothing I can do about what might have happened with the rest who have seen her.

Does anybody else who has seen her remember the dustballs in the corners of the stairs? Did she greet you wearing a heavy, fluffy robe--on the first day she had pajamas on underneath, on the next two days she wore nothing underneath as she knew what I was there for.

There must be another Amy as the one I met was more than willing to provide what I was looking for, as long as I came prepared (condom).
 
I believe Amy is very YMMV. w some guys she won't even offer hand release. i absolutely believe sfmike. it struck me that more wd be on the menu if i asked and offered up enuff $. as it was i took the .4 45min massage plus .2 release plus .2 for topless touch. for .6 she was willing to do more but i wasn't interested that day.

re: age controversy. she told me she was 22. personally i don't believe it. i'd say mid-30s for sure although from some angles and with that cute smile you can imagine what she looked like when she was 22...

oh, and if you are afraid of dogs (2 german shepherds...)
you might want to avoid her place...
 
I believe SFMIKE & she probably does not do much on the 1st visit unless you ask or show that you are interested in the other stuff.
I was chatting with her throughout the massage & really did no have a chance to ask her & since it's my 1st time there, it really didn't matter.
She was wearing a robe but with clothes underneath but I can sense she will do the extras.
However, I did not find her hot enough for extras so I left it alone.
I'm sure there's only one 'Amy' there & YMMV. Definitely believe I can get more next time but not sure if I want to go there again.
I find Maggie (the one with Sunny) to be more attractive & nicer body.
She charges about .20 more & little further for me to travel though.
 
wow, that's quite a statment!

If you put Maggie as being more attractive and with a nicer body then there is certainly no reason to see Amy, and she was on my snowy Friday afternoon to-do list too. :(

Where's Raine when you need her;)
 
The impression I got about Amy was that first visit would only be massage, and hj for 20 more dollars. Another 20 dollars would get robe off (and clothes off, if she had anything underneath). Beyond that, it is up to her what she offers on subsequent visits: FS if you bring your own condom, and, most important of all, pass her "size test". Keep in mind, YMMV.

I do not set the rules for her, she sets the rules, and it sounds like she has no trouble sticking to them. Apparently, she is not lacking for business, otherwise she would be offering at least hj for everybody. Maybe she sizes up guys' attitudes and decides what she will offer based on that. It is her right to refuse extra services, since she really is only advertising massage services. Works for me.
 
I have seen her and concur with SFM's recent comments.

I was only looking for massage & release (as I was "dollar cost averaging").

Same prices/options as prev. quoted., .4 massage .2 finish.
Got a little curious.
Another .2 for 'hands under clothes', another .2 for them all to come off.
(So much for "dollar cost averaging"...)

Decent massage & HJ.
Came on her tits.

Dirty empty place.
30s not 20s for sure.
Received the same "BYOC" offer for FS next time.

Overall good value for R&T but beyond that, not really my cuppa tea.
 
None of you have mentioned the dogs, or maybe she has removed them I saw her when she first started advertising and she offered everything then. She really likes DATY, I see it hasn't taken her long to put her prices up back then it was three greens and a purple for everything, Anyway I have moved on from this SP to new experiences and my old trap line which pretty keeps me busy daily.
 
Shoutbox
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  4. ASPA:
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  5. wonderspa:
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  6. HolidaySpa:
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  7. #203MoMo&Beauty:
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  8. ForeverWarden:
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  9. SugarLoveSpa:
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  10. Withme_Spa:
    ๐Ÿ’•๐Ÿ’๐Ÿ’ฅat 4386 Sheppard Avenue east ๐Ÿ’ฆ๐Ÿ’ซ๐Ÿ’ž๐Ÿ’‹๐Ÿ’ฅTuesday, โฃ๐Ÿ’—Mia, ๐Ÿ’ž๐Ÿ’‹petite Taiwanese, sexy build with beautiful face. friendly, very relaxing treatment and wonderful finish. โฃโค Yoyo,๐Ÿ’‹๐Ÿ’ž medium height and sexy build with shapely legs and ass. friendly, very good treatment and excellent finish.๐Ÿ’ž Jessica, ๐Ÿ’‹medium height, sexy build with shapely legs and ass. friendly, relaxing finish. โฃโค Lulu, ๐Ÿ’ž๐Ÿ’‹tall, slim, curvy, pretty girl with long hair. Soft treatment and very nice finish. ๐Ÿ’–โฃ๐Ÿ’‹ ๐Ÿ”‹416 297-7488๐Ÿ”‹
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  12. See You Health Center:
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  17. lemon_tree:
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  18. Red Rose Spa:
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  23. Endless Joy Spa:
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  25. EMSpa_schedule:
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  27. Shangri-la Spa:
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  28. hiyamickey:
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  29. Newspring@:
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  30. Sunrise Health Centre:
    ๐Ÿซฆ Angela ๐Ÿ”ฅ is here Today! ๐Ÿ“ž๐Ÿ“ฒ (647) 325-8086 ๐Ÿ’ฆ Angela is a Beautiful & Petite Young Chinese Girl ๐Ÿ’‹ We have Hot & Sexy Girls Every Day. ๐Ÿ’„ They all do Extra Services & are Very Open-Minded ~ Drop In Anytime ๐Ÿšถโ€โ™€๏ธ๐Ÿšถโ€โžก๏ธ Walk-Ins Are Always Welcome! Unit 27, 10 East Wilmot Street, Richmond Hill
  31. Moneylee:
    All season wellness center :Young girl big boobs beautiful face deep massage Kelly ,New Young girl big boobs beautiful face deep massage Baby ,Young girl big breasted beautiful buttocks charming temperament big boobs Yoyo ,Young girl Big breasted saucy naughty Ella ,Enchanting sexy petite deep massage Sherry , address: #5-30 Rambler dr Brampton ,Ontario L6W 1E2โ˜Ž๏ธ4376655510 ๐Ÿ‘„๐Ÿ‘„๐Ÿฆต๐Ÿฆต๐Ÿˆต๏ธ๐Ÿˆต๏ธ๐Ÿ‘…๐Ÿ‘…
  32. Moneylee:
    Full season wellness center: New Young girl Big-breasted big Big boobs big butts May, Young girl big breasted beautiful buttocks charming temperament big boobs Vita ,Young girl big boobs beautiful face deep massage Bobo, Young beautiful face sexy body and good deep massage maggie,Enchanting sexy petite deep massage Mary. 2560 Shepard ave Mississauga unit 1 .โ˜Ž๏ธ4379857899 ๐Ÿฆต๐Ÿฆต๐Ÿ‘„๐Ÿ‘„๐Ÿˆต๏ธ๐Ÿˆต๏ธ๐Ÿ‘…๐Ÿ‘…
  33. wonderspa:
    ๐ŸŒบ๐Ÿ˜welcome to wonder spaโ˜Ž๏ธโ˜Ž๏ธ416-5000-800๏ผŒopen10 to10.we have 4young beautiful girls working everyday,๐Ÿ’„Mina is very friendly nice girl,providing deep tissue massage and nice body slide ๐Ÿ’„ new girl Mimi very good looking,big breasted service queen,girl friend experience,๐Ÿ’„Amy is long hair Vietnamese girl,open maid,she can do everything you want,must try,๐Ÿท๐Ÿฅฐ๐Ÿ‘call416-5000-800๐Ÿ’„
  34. New Oriental Health Centre:
    ๐Ÿซฆ Tiana & Nayla are in today ๐Ÿ“žCall ๐Ÿ“ฒ Text: (647) 381-2688 ๐Ÿ’„ Make Your Day Incredibly Delicious ๐Ÿ’„Tiana is a Beautiful Jamaican. Talented ๐Ÿ’‹Very Sexyโ€ฆ ๐Ÿ‘ Nayla is a Tall, Young, Beautiful & Curvy Spanish Girl. ๐Ÿ’‹ All Our Girls Provide Lots of E X T R A S & are Extremely Open-Minded ๐Ÿค— We're Open from 8am til Late Everyday! Drop in to Unit 26, 10 East Wilmot Street, Richmond Hill.
  35. Soul Relax Spa:
    โœจ Looking for a relaxing escape? โœ… Meet๐ŸŒธIvy๐ŸŒธKim๐ŸŒธBrandyCall us today for the best treatment and service experience. Click on our Username and FOLLOW US for updates ! Call now โ˜Ž 289 - 298 - 5662โ˜Ž๏ธ Your ultimate relaxation awaits! โœจ
  36. SugarLoveSpa:
    Monday at โค๏ธ๐Ÿ’™ ๐Ÿ’œโŽ๐—ฆ๐—จ๐—š๐—”๐—ฅ ๐—Ÿ๐—ข๐—ฉ๐—˜ ๐—ฆ๐—ฃ๐—”โŽ ๐Ÿ’–๐Ÿ’—๐Ÿ’˜: ANA, ELLA & HELLEN. 1270 Finch Ave W (at Keele St), Unit 18. North York, ON โ˜Ž ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฑ-๐Ÿฎ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿด๐Ÿด โ˜Ž ANA is a young, short and sweet lady, 5โ€™1 & 105 Lbs, very tight, with a small to medium booty. Ana is a versatile honey who provides great massage, & can accommodate your needs. ELLA is a lovely Thai sweetheart, 5โ€™1โ€ with C Cups, smooth skin and a very pleasing attitude.
  37. AliceSpa:
    MONDAY at ๐—”๐—Ÿ๐—œ๐—–๐—˜ ๐—ฆ๐—ฃ๐—”, 4915 Steeles Ave. E, Scarborough ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿญ๐Ÿฒ-๐Ÿฎ๐Ÿต๐Ÿด-๐Ÿฌ๐Ÿด๐Ÿต๐Ÿด. 3 Sexy Young Girls Today at Alice Spa, : HOLLY (11am-9pm) : is a young, pretty, slim & busty yoga instructor from Vietnam, standing 5โ€™4โ€ with C Cups. She has top services, bbbj ,cim, pussy slide, 69, SF2, water flute. Donโ€™t miss out! JULIA from Philippines, young girl, busty, E cup, curvy short body, cute face
  38. Lulu_Villa_Spa:
    Candy She is a Vietnamese๏ผŒ Face and body to die for. Her smile will make you melt. Sami Gorgeous Model Type Vietnamese School Girl She is 5โ€™ 2โ€ tall, 98 Lbs With D Cup Melons Natalie she is CBC/filipina mixed Petite school girl โ€จGFE, BBbj, DFK in her menu โ˜Ž๏ธ647- 446-0886
  39. See You Health Center:
    Lin Very Young, Petiteโ€จVietnamese Studentโ€จWith Spicy Slim Bodyโ€จ5โ€™ 1โ€, 100 lbs Blonde Hairโ€จGreat BBJ, CIM Judy is a gorgeous model type Vietnamese Girl Cici Cute Skinny Sexy Vietnamese Girl โ˜Ž๏ธ416-988-2950
  40. Sparkling Spa:
    โšก๏ธ๐ŸŒŸSPARKLING SPAโšก๏ธ๐ŸŒŸ โœ…50 Lockridge Ave Unit 8โœ… ๐Ÿ‘ŒMarkham, ON L3R 8X4๐Ÿ‘Œ โ˜Ž๏ธ (905) 604-8186 Spa Land Lineโ˜Ž๏ธ โ˜Ž๏ธ (437) 446-6688 NEW Spa Cell Phoneโ˜Ž๏ธ (West of Warden & 16th Ave) OPEN 10am to 9pm MONDAY to SUNDAY ๐Ÿ”ฅโœ…NEW MANAGEMENT๐Ÿ’ฏNEW GIRLS๐Ÿ”ฅSUPERSTAR SERVICE QUEENS AVAILABLE AT SPARKLING SPA FOR ALL YOUR MASSAGE AND SPECIAL EXTRA NEEDS๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ’ฏ๐Ÿ˜˜๐Ÿ”ฅโค๏ธ๐Ÿ‘Œ ๐Ÿ”ฅSEXY NEW YOUNG GIRLS ALWAYS WORKING - Todayโ€™s Schedule isโ€ฆ๐Ÿ”ฅ Zoe - ๐Ÿ”ฅStunning Tall Taiwanese Service Queen with Endless Passion and Sensuality w
  41. Forever Spa:
    ๐Ÿ’Ž๐Ÿ’Ž๐Ÿ’Ž We provide the BEST TABLE SHOWER IN TOWN: Clean room with reliable warm shower nozzle ๐Ÿ’Ž Ruby & Lisa (new) and Cindy are available ๐Ÿ’Ž 2190 Warden ๐Ÿ’Ž 416-800-7887 ๐Ÿ’Ž
  42. Jennyโ€™s Spa:
    ๐ŸŽ‰๐Ÿ’JENNYโ€™S SPA๐ŸŽ‰๐Ÿ’ โœ…5170 DUNDAS STREET WESTโœ… ๐Ÿ‘ŒETOBICOKE ONTARIO M9A 1C4๐Ÿ‘Œ โ˜Ž๏ธ( 647-893-5196)โ˜Ž๏ธCall or Text โ˜Ž๏ธ( 437-888-3759)โ˜Ž๏ธCall Only (ETOBICOKE) OPEN 10am to 9pm MONDAY to SUNDAY ๐Ÿ”ฅโœ…GRAND OPENING๐Ÿ’ฏNEW GIRLS EVERYDAY๐Ÿ”ฅEXCELLENT MASSAGE + SERVICE QUEENS NOW AVAILABLE AT JENNYโ€™S SPA FOR ALL YOUR MASSAGE AND SPECIAL EXTRA NEEDS๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ’ฏ๐Ÿ˜˜๐Ÿ”ฅโค๏ธ๐Ÿ‘Œ ๐Ÿ”ฅTWO BEAUTIFUL NEW YOUNG ASIAN GIRLS EVERYDAY๐Ÿ”ฅ ๐Ÿ’ฏREAL PICTURES OF ATTENDANTS๐Ÿ’ฏ ๐Ÿ”ฅTODAYโ€™s ROSTER INCLUDES: Rose๐ŸŒน - A sexy new addition to our lin
  43. AmoreSpaEtobicoke:
    AMORE SPA 127 Westmore Drive, Unit 106C Etobicoke, ON M9V 3Y6 โ˜Ž 437-688-2407 โ˜Ž Monday at AMORE SPA: CHERRY & Tiny Spinner LALA CHERRY is a proven superstar, Slim Asian with a pretty face, all natural A or B Cups, long nipples, slim waist & small round bum. Her services are legendary. Tiny LALA is an unbelievably good Superstar SPINNER, only 5โ€™2โ€ and 95 pounds beautiful face
  44. ASPA:
    ๐— ๐—ข๐—ก๐——๐—”๐—ฌ ๐—”๐—ง ๐€ ๐’๐๐€: EMMA and Best Massage RACHEL. ๐Ÿ…ฐ๏ธ๐€ ๐’๐๐€๐Ÿ…ฐ๏ธ, 28 South Unionville Ave, Unit 5, Markham. ๐Ÿ…ฐ๏ธ๐—–๐—ฎ๐—น๐—น ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿณ๐Ÿฎ๐Ÿต-๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฌ๐Ÿฒ ๐—ผ๐—ฟ ๐˜๐—ฒ๐˜…๐˜ ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿด๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿต-๐Ÿฑ๐Ÿต๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿ…ฐ๏ธ EMMA is 1.64Cm. and weighs 52Kg. Emma is sweet and elegant, has very good communication & massage, and her services will make your visit enjoyable. RACHEL is slim and attractive
  45. ForeverWarden:
    Monday at ๐Ÿซฆโค๏ธ๐Ÿ”ดโ™พ๏ธ๐“•๐“ž๐“ก๐“”๐“ฅ๐“”๐“ก ๐“ข๐“Ÿ๐“โ™พ๏ธ๐ŸŸฅ๐Ÿ”ดโค๏ธ๐Ÿซฆ 2190 Warden Ave, Unit 201, Scarborough ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿญ๐Ÿฒ-๐Ÿด๐Ÿฌ๐Ÿฌ-๐Ÿณ๐Ÿด๐Ÿด๐Ÿณ: Lisa, Ruby & Cindy. Lisa is a young, slim, friendly & very beautiful Vietnamese beauty with a nice body, nice 34D boobs, slim waist, impressive booty, nice massage, great services. RUBY is Singaporean, very slim, petite & sexy, speaks English well, & has great services.
  46. bnwellness_wilson:
    We have 4 young beautiful girls are working today, young cute Lily 25โ€™s with curive body open mind and young sweet slime Yuki 30โ€™s open mind , young fun Ivy 30โ€™s with big buttocks 34 DD and sexy Coco are providing deep tissue and sensual massage, pls call 416-3985777 book appointment and walk in always welcome, back entrance and parking available, 350 Wilson Ave North York
  47. HolidaySpa:
    Monday at ๐ŸŒด๐Ÿ˜Ž๐ŸŒ…๐“—๐“ธ๐“ต๐“ฒ๐“ญ๐“ช๐”‚ ๐“ข๐“น๐“ช๐ŸŒ…๐Ÿ˜Ž๐ŸŒด3517 Kennedy Rd, Unit 4, Scarborough โ˜Ž๏ธ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿฎ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿญ๐Ÿญ๐Ÿต๐Ÿตโ˜Ž๏ธAMY, CANDY & CINDY AMY is an attractive young lady with larger breasts and a nice bottom. She has outstanding oral skills, and is very popular. Donโ€™t miss out on her special skills! New Today, ANDY is busty with long hair, a slim waist and slightly curvy sexy bum. She knows how to drive you wild.
  48. Endless Joy Spa:
    โœจโœจโœจโœจโœจ[GRAND OPENING]โœจโœจโœจโœจโœจ ๐Ÿ’žEndless Joy Spa๐Ÿ’ž ๐ŸŽ‡ (155 East Beaver Creek Rd Unit #8, Richmond Hill) 416-731-8565๐ŸŽ‡10am-2am, New First Day Young Slim Petite Chinese Vivi, Tall Slim Sexy Chinese Kelly, Slim Chinese Lisa, Young Sexy Chinese Abie, Young Sexy CBC Rachel.
  49. Annie Spa:
    ๐ŸŽ‰๐Ÿ’ANNIE SPA๐ŸŽ‰๐Ÿ’ โœ…7-1001 SANDHURST CIRCLEโœ… ๐Ÿ‘ŒSCARBOROUGH ON M1V 1Z6๐Ÿ‘Œ โ˜Ž๏ธ (647) 891-9688โ˜Ž๏ธ โ˜Ž๏ธ (416) 291-8879โ˜Ž๏ธ (FINCH & MCCOWAN) OPEN 9:30am to 9pm MONDAY to SUNDAY ๐Ÿ”ฅโœ…NEW MANAGEMENT๐Ÿ’ฏNEW GIRLS๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ”ฅ ๐Ÿ”ฅGORGEOUS NEW YOUNG ASIAN GIRLS - TODAYโ€™s ROSTER INCLUDES: ๐Ÿ”ฅ Summer โค๏ธ has nice sexy body, and nice breasts. She can give very good massage and fun service. Very sexy, and so friendly. Beautiful girl with great massage skills and willing to give you a happy fun session multiple times if you
  50. Lulu1980:
    Phoenix blossom Spa โ™จ๏ธโ™จ๏ธโ™จ๏ธtable shower ๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘body scrub๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน5124 Dundas W Etobicoke โ˜Ž๏ธ416-817-3366 Nice girl Luna is joining. She can provide a very good massage with sensual touch. She knows how to take direction and please a man. Suki ๐Ÿ˜˜can provide deep Thai massage. She takes directions very well. She has many assets and knows how to use them. Come see her today.Welcome to walk in or make an appointment at any time. Plenty of parking space at the back door
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