Prolapsed disc... and in a lot of painnnnnn

[msjinx39]

Marie
You said you are problem-free now.
I am not quite clear as to whether you had the surgery or not.
Anyway, here is a link you might want to look at: www.magiclaser.com
They use low power laser therapy to cure an impressive array of degenerative disorders such as symptomatic herniated disk and joint problems.
An economical home laser therapy device is the TerraQuant, which has a distributor in the UK. Although this device is Class 1M and should not present an eye hazard, I recommend using the protective goggles supplied with the device just to be on the safe side. It seems you simply direct the laser beam onto the painful area of your back with the hand-held unit. I am now waiting for delivery of the device. A local laser therapy clinic told me that for back problems, treatment for 10 minutes twice a week would be about right. They said that although individual response varies, the problem often completely resolves without surgery in 6 months. There are "in vitro" (lab dish) studies which show that the laser stimulates cartilage growth. In addition, the laser clinic with the "magiclaser" website above states that post-MRI confirm disk regeneration. Some hospitals here use this laser therapy for first-time hernia sufferers, but not for long-standing disk problems (such as mine) - when they recommend surgery. Nevertheless, I plan to start this therapy in conjunction with "Syn-Flex" liquid glucosamine, chrondroitin, cod liver oil and other herbal agents immediately. As another resource, there is also the "Andean Medicine Center" in London which has an armoury of 6 or 7 rainforest herbs specifically for herniated disk. Yet another resource is the MedX computerized feedback isometric back-strengthening machine in Harley Street which aims to strengthen the musculature around the disk, and thereby allow the disk to heal without interference. These approaches aim to reconstruct the failing disk, joint and surrounding tissue rather than surgery which aims to solve the problem by partially or completely removing it (at high risk), and therefore, these constructive approaches get my unequivocal support, first-timer or long-timer.

 

[ngevnupqiggisiewe]

Sorry. Sent that before i had finished!!

I was going to elaborate somewhat. I have spoken to several people who have undergone same or similar ops, the general concesus seems to be 80-20 in favour but i guess i am just a big baby when it comes to hospital!!!
I should have stated that the jab was a steroid and was fantastic for 4 weeks but then it wore off. At least the Drs were happy to know they were treating the correct area

I have seen the scan pics twice now and it is extremely clear that the two prolapsed discs are pushing against the spinal cord and despite continued physio this just does not want to go away.
I really dont know what to try next exept surgery, but i know at some point i am just going to have to trust this Dr. His name is Martin Newey from leicester if anyone has heard of him. He seems very knowledgable and has assured me that despite the small risk involved, he has never cased any long term damage to any patient YET!!

Thanks for the tips about groups. I will try it later. Are the medical profeesssion pro or anti surgery for this kind of op in Quebec ?

 

[aPhopiep]

Hello All,

I am new to this forum, I came across it whist lying in bed recovering from prolapsed disc - I have the laptop beside me but a bit difficult to use keyboard lying down.

I have had 3 or 4 prolapses of the same lumbar disc over the last 30 years, this latest, brought on by stretching awkwardly during some DIY (I should have known better).

So far I have avoided surgery and recovered each time with many trouble free years in between, although I have had to adapt lifestyle slightly. During the first attack (1975) I became very depressed, in hospital for weeks on what seemed to be unresponsive treatments: traction and manipulation under general anaesthetic, and then off work for months. However with bed rest I did eventually recover. After the second prolapse I had a course of epidural steroid/anaesthetic injections which brought quick relief from pain. This time I am sure I will recover again having done so in the past.

Best wishes to all fellow sufferes.

Peter

 

[Theandysullivan]

Today, I spoke to a chiropractic clinic that has used the low level laser therapy for the last 30 years. They said I should use the home laser device to treat the hernia and joint for about 10 minutes twice per week. They also said I am looking at around 6 months of same until the problem is gone. Well, if the laser can really regenerate the disk and joint, it`s nothing short of a miracle, but that is exactly what they`re saying.
Peter, I would like to offer a "theory" about the nature of this condition.
As you said, people such as ourselves often suffer multiple prolapses of the same disk with several years without problems in-between. The fact that there are such pain-free intervals means that the disk does heal itself after each prolapse. But it gets weaker and weaker with each prolapse, as well as losing height which makes it more susceptible to prolapse under bending loads, until it has finally completely worn paper-thin. If the proponents of the laser therapy are correct in that it can gradually be rebuilt, the new disk material could be as strong as it was before the start of all these episodes. Since we now have the laser, this is surely a goal worth trying and worth aiming for.

 

[el tom]

My experience with these repeated prolapses is that each one is less severe than the last and heals faster. I suppose it may because the more you have the more you adapt your lifestyle to prevent further prolapses and the less severe they become.

The second time I was fortunate in having a GP who had also had repeated prolapsed discs, it was he who recommended me to the doctor/osteopath who did the epidural injections, he also told me that as one got older that the body naturally tended to absorb the prolapsed disc material - I read somewhere that prolapsed discs over the age of 65 were rare - I have a few years to go yet!

Is this laser treatment non invasive?

Peter

 

[FrostFaerie]

Yes, Peter - it is completely non-invasive. No surgical incision or needles are required - only the light invades the tissues, and nothing else. The home lasers are Class I or Class IM devices. Class I requires no precautions for eye safety. Class IM must not be viewed (direct or reflected beam) through optical magnification devices such as a magnifying glass. All lasers requiring such protection should be and are normally supplied with protective eyewear.

 

[A-Hart !]

Have you tried it, please let me know how you get on.

Peter.

 

[brattylilsis25]

I am now awaiting delivery of the TerraQuant laser. Whether the outcome is positive, negative or neutral, I will report back to this forum.

 

[skylinenet]

Hello Max!

I'm pain free because I've healed. Finally! Can't take glucosamine because I'm diabetic. Makes BG go up and up... Steroids do the same unfortunately. So I guess diabetics should never have prolapsed discs...? eekkk...

************************

Hello Baxter!

I'm just like you : when it comes to scalpels... I'm the biggest wuss in the world!

I really don't know what it's like in Québec because I've suffered from a prolapsed disc over here, in England. I've heard that a French Canadian champion skier suffered from 2 prolapsed discs last winter... but I'm not sure if she had surgery or not. But I know she recovered!

If you go for the op, keep me posted will you Baxter? They say 50% of recovery happens in between your ears... so stay positive!!!!

*************

Hello Peter!

I live in the fear of having yet another prolapsed disc. If you say they tend to be less painful, that makes me relax a bit.

*******************

In a hurry... ciao guys! Take good care!

Marie

 

[flatearthsociety]

hi all ,just joined the forum,i as youve all proberley guessed also suffer with a prolapsed disc ,i recently under went a discetomy but have felt no real improvement.this is an on going battle which seems to drag on and on im hoping in the next couple of weeks to start having steroid injections in the lowe back,( hope i dont come across as a bit of whimp but having felt the agony of back pain the thought of sticking needles into it is scary ) has any one had these injections ?i would love to know how you got on ,does it help with pain,can you stand straight ,are there side affects?should i do it?????????.any way ive rambled enough i look forward to hearing from you many thanks and good luck every one

 

[vaemouweinkiqkehx]

Hi jo,
Just seen your posting. I have to have op in may and wondered what the outcome was of yours?
Be great to hear your views as i am very anxious!
thanks
Baxter

 

[Caehildad]

Hi Aldo,

I had steroid injections, although not the discectomy, and they did bring a lot of pain relief very quickly but the injections themselves were quite painful. Mine were done without any kind of pre-med, I think they can do preliminary anaesthetic injections first. I could not walk before I had the injections - had to crawl upstairs, but managed to walk afterwards, came home and into a hot bath and felt much better.


Hello Marie

Glad you are healed.

Best wishes.

 

[nick h h]

hi all, couldnt believe my luck when i came across this forum. after a fall in mid nov i had bad back pain for a few weeks which seemed to settle down to a dull ache , then about 4wks ago i woke up in bed and couldnt move for the excruciating pains running down both my legs after a home visit from my gp i was prescribed tramadol and baclofen to take and told to try to get up and about as soon as possible.
a few days later i noticed that my foot was starting to drag and the inside of my right foot and outside of my lower leg were numb.it became increasingly difficult for me to walk just a few steps after a visit to my gp on thefriday morning he told me to go down to my local spinal assessment unit and he would phone ahead. when i arrived there , after a lengthy examination they booked me in for an MRI scan 3days later on the monday ( I KNOW!! how quick is that) but it gets better . After my MRI scan showed a prolapsed disc they then booked me in the next day for an injection of steroids and anti-inflam. I couldnt believe how quickly things just happened and i realise how lucky i have been after reading some of your postings. the only downside being that it has now been 15 days since this injection and apart from the initial numbness caused by the epidural i have noticed no real improvement in my pain and still cant walk more than a few feet without pain and tripping over my foot (which seems to have a mind of its own) am i being to impatient waiting for the results ? or does this injection sometimes not work? ah well i am back for my follow up on the 15th of april so fingers crossed ..

 

[crickeys]

My understanding of these steroid injections is that they reduce the inflammation around the nerve endings that the protruding disc material has caused, but I don't think they reduce the actual disc protrusion itself. I had two injections about a week apart and I found these very beneficial, they reduced the intense spasms of pain I was getting, but I still had to rest in order to reduce the protrusion and make a recovery.

Best wishes

 

[okie dokie]

Hello Kar!

When I first started this thread, I was sure I was the only one suffering like this. I remember the sheer pain I was in, just sitting at the comp. I'm glad this thread has helped people.

Indeed you had medical attention and fast. Good for you! Count your blessings.

I've heard that steroids injections don't always work. Depends on the individual. Same goes for the operation. We all react in diff ways.

I know you're in pain but keep moving! My biggest mistake was to stay flat on my back for weeks. My right leg became very thin, lost much muscle in it. That's a bit hard to recover from, on top of everything else!

When I started to hobble around the house again (I was in excruciating pain), right there I started to notice progress. And it kind of lifted the depression too. Because I was sooooo down... couldn't see the end of the suffering. Just don't over do it! Baby steps my dear.

Yoga has helped too. Glucosamine. Hot baths in Epsom salts! (1/2 cup to 3/4 cups in your bath). -W-o-n-d-e-r-f-u-l-... to rid you of much pain, especially if you want a somewhat good night sleep. Your whole attitude is important too. When I heard my youngest ask his dad if mum was dying... that was a huge turning point for me.

The thing is... it takes time to heal. And when in pain, patience goes out the window. I was certainly not a patient patient...

8 months later, I feel just fine. I haven't fully recovered reflexes in my right leg (will probably stay that way unfortunately) and I do have a little numbness... well not exactly numbness as such... hard to explain! But the skin doesn't feel the same anymore, around the knee and a bit at the ankle. But it gets better very slowly.

And although I've healed I do take time to rest my back. I always try to find time to lay flat on my back on the floor for about 20 minutes or so, especially at the end of the day.

Good luck!

Marie

 

[ckeqiuuriwiihxewd]

Hi Baxter

As you may have read in my first post I have had an operation on my back, I have had a relatively new procedure called a Wallis, that is when a spacer thingy is placed in the spine and I have had a disectomy at L4/5. I suupose the operation was successful as my body is again functioning. I was also in danger of nerve damage to the bladder and the bowel, before the operation my bladder and bowel had stopped working at all.

Keep me posted on your progress.

Good luck my thoughts are with you.

DD from Australia.

 

[Mayroitiado]

Hi Dd
Wow Australia,didnt think we were that far afield!
The Dr did look into the spacers for me but didnt think i would benefit enough.
Did i understand correctly that you had lost control of bladder and bowel before your op?
Baxter

 

[Howenwyth]

3 DAYS,WOW can only say its nice to hear storys like that ,i had to go private or wait 10 months!just for the mri,any way the injections are meant to be pretty much instant,i have recently had the op to have the disc shaved(disceptomy)but didnt get much releif dr has said i need injections to try and alleveiate some of the pain.BUT!!!!!as you would have noticed reading this forum everybody is different,so every body reacts to treament diffrently,if like me the pain is so great you`ll try anything .dont give up all the best aldo

 

[3 of us and 1 on the way!]

Here is a thought about glucosamine/chrondroitin supplements.
As I understand it, there are three kinds of pain coming from collapsed disks:
(1) ACUTE HERNIA
Herniated nucleosus pulp squeezed out of disk, and tangled up around spinal cord (burning pain/inflammation).
(2) BULGING DISK
Stabbing, knife-like pain from bulging disk pressing on spinal cord, with or without (1) above.
(1) and (2) produce muscle spasms, making it impossible to stand erect or walk.
(3) COMPRESSED DISK (LUMBAGO)
Compressed disk pinching nerve roots passing thru disk, but not pressing on spinal cord (nasty, but nowhere near as bad as (1) or (2) above).
Now - suddenly, an error of "approach" occurs to me. Many of us, including me, have been taking such things as Chicken Collagen II or glucosamine supplements to build up more disk material. But - I now believe that this step should be reserved until later. The herniated nucleus and bulging disk material often disappears over a period of months or years on its own. This can only be due to the action of proteolytic enzymes in the spinal fluid which bathes the disks. My point is this - these enzymes work very slowly, and we are not helping this process by taking masses of glucosamine which would keep the enzymes busy and unable to resorb the hernia. For example, the goal of spinal surgery is to provide immediate relief by first removing the extruded nucleus, and/or that part of the nucleus bulging onto the spinal cord. We who wish to avoid surgery, must therefore let these enzymes do their work by NOT using glucosamine supplementation - unless your problem is only (3) above (compressed disk). We might also do well to take pancreatic enzyme supplements of trypsin and chymotrypsin which - hardly surprisingly - have been shown to relieve low back pain in double blind trials. I have ordered a vegetable analog of pancreatin, although it may not work so well. We might also add papain and bromelain tablets to our diet. The clinical relief of back pain in the trials was obtained in as little as 10 days. So I am planning to take these enzyme supplements for around 2 weeks - 1 month. After that, I will go back to the glucosamine/chrondroitin/collagen regimen to try to repair what is left of the disk. And we need to look at something which will strengthen the disk, not only glucosamine. Many of us have got a genetic weakness which incorrectly uses the aminoacid tryptophan instead of glutamine and arginine to build new disk material which deforms (prolapses) easily under load - hence our back problem. But normally, we will have two copies of the same gene - one from Mum and one from Dad. It is unlikely that both copies will be corrupt. I suggest feeding the "good" copy by taking glutamine and arginine together with the glucosamine, when we return to using glucosamine supplements to try and build up the disk.
I would think the use of the low level laser may be continued thruout. However, if like me, you also use blood thinning/circulation aiding herbs such as Prickly Ash, the use of these herbs should be postponed until after the enzyme treatment has finished, because the enzymes themselves cause some thinning of the blood and too much thinning would cause hemorrhaging. Also, such herbs cannot be taken if you are taking blood-thinning medications such as Warfarin, for the same reason. Other herbs which have been indicated for our condition are Sarsaparilla, Black Cohosh, Red Clover, Burdock Root, Oregon Grape, Ginger and Lobelia. Black Cohosh has assisted metastasis in cancer, and in my opinion should not be included. Lobelia has caused poisoning in some people, and should be not be included. In my opinion, the rest are OK.
A final point here - it would seem very wise to drink a few cups of tea every day to supply manganese (not a problem in the UK!). Disks L5/S1 and L4/L5 often prolapse because the sacroiliac joint under the disks falls on the left or right sides, leaving the disks to support the body weight or forward shear stresses which should be h

 

[Charly Hayes]

I have only just come across this site and have found it interesting reading. I have just been diagnosed with a prolapsed disc after living with the pain since 2002 when a car pulled out in front of me on my motorcycle. I suffered multiple trauma and was on the critical list for a week or so.

As a result of the accident I have been left with amongst other things, a constant numbness / pins & needles of the right side, emanating from the head, all the way down to the toes. I assumed this was caused by damage to the brain which I suffered as a result of the accident. The numbness gets worse with any form of exercise. Is this common?

I have set myself a target of completing a half marathon later this month in order to raise money for the Air Ambulance as they were the first guys from a long list to save my life. I'm still on Tramadol / Voltarol and a TENS machine and the pain is numbed by these but I still struggle whilst (trying) to run as after a while the right foot goes totally numb and then I get a lot of pain in the right leg. Does anyone else suffer similar?

I am due to get steroid injections in August & September so hopefully these will help but it's a long wait. Once I have done the half marathon, I will switch to cycling / swimming instead as the impact of running is too much.