What does it mean?

[Zahid]

Thank you. I do tend to over think things that should be taken at face value

 

[Uk MonkeyFinger]

The marriage was rocky but most marriages go through stages where they are. That attitude is where the high divorce rate comes from. People aren't willing to work on relationships, many get married with the attitude that if it doesn't work they can always get divorced. Granted cheating on a spouse is not the problem that always warrants making an effort but the fact that we were not happy at times is not a reason to get divorced itselft. There was no abuse or physical fighting of any kind. There wasn't any emotional abuse either but there was neglect. That's why the fact that he's spending so much more time with me and the kids now shows that he is trying. The fact that we are once again enjoying spending a lot of time together and the only arguements we are having is about the cheating tells me the marriage is stronger than it had been in a long time.

Yes owning a home and becoming a father is a change that comes with age but he is the first person in his entire family to own a home. He never had any desire to own one had nothing to do with his age, it wasn't part of his upbringing. Shortly after we bought our house his twin brother also bought a house. He had never considered this before either. They grew up living in rentals, their parents and grandparents, aunts and cousins all rent. They just never considered it and never thought it was important before. They moved every year of his life growing up and never attended the same school for more than a year. The attitude towards owning is purely my influence. He's not in his 40's he's in his early 30's. He was a father and self employed in his mid 20's when you say most people are still kids. The partying stopped in his early 20's because he was happy to hang out at home with me instead of going out and getting drunk with his buddies

Women manipulating men via unplanned pregnancy???? Really??? Are women getting themselves pregnant? Our first born was not planned but when I told him I was pregnant I told him I'd have an abortion if he wanted. I had no plan on doing so, if he wanted me to I was going to break up with him and raise our son on my own but I knew he was young and didnt want to force him into being a father before he was ready. I did not however stick my own dick into me and impregnate myself. He was right there enjoying every second of it. I was on the pill but he knew I was horrible at taking pills. He used to ask me if I took it and I'd look and say nope, not for 3 days now. I'm that way with all pills. I don't think I've ever completed any Rx I've ever gotten. He knew that for years before I got pregnant and could have used condoms. We had them and had used them for a long time but he simply didn't like them. Maybe he manipulated me by getting me pregnant...???
It's a cop out for a man to say that...take care of yourself. Even if a woman is on the pill you can wear a condom, get snipped or at least remind her daily to take her pills. Why the hell do people always think that's solely the responsiblilty of the woman?

Now, finally, checking texts to see if he's received any from her. I never, for 14 years EVER checked up on him. I never nosed through his phone, pockets, wallet anything. He went fishing for days at a time and fished several times a week all summer for the last several years. He went on weekend fishing trips when I was 8 1/2 months pregnant. I was fine with that. The betrayal changed things. He's ok with me getting reassurance by looking at the phone records. He knows I do it. It's to reassure me that nothing is going on. Is it dysfunctional? Yes. Is it MY problem? No. He cheated and caused me to be insecure. I do not trust him right now and I don't think anyone can blame me. If we are going to work it out it'll take time to regain that trust I had in him and it may never come back totally. If the checking had been going on for years I'd say you were right but we've only been trying to make things work post affair for a couple of months. He's gone on 2 over night fishing trips since we've been back together and several day trips. He's out fishing right now as a matter of fact. He still has a lot of freedom that most men in his situation would not have, at least not this soon. I'm not reading the actual texts just seeing who sent them. I reassures me and I don't see anything wrong with that. I'm still not nosing through his wallet, truck, emails or anything else.

Actually I think the dysfunctional part was the screwing another woman for 3 months behind my back but that's just my opinion.

Yes, I know I am defending myself and the relationship here but that's because I didn't ask if I should be trying with him, I asked what people thought his answer meant. I am not really confused about if I should be with him. I don't know 100% so I'm giving it time and trying my best to make it work. When I'm not as hurt if I still don't know if I should be with him than my answer will be no.

 

[Estella]

I hope so means that he wants it to work, but really isn't sure that it will.

Every relationship needs two willing parties who will work at success.

He's making the effort, as you said, by spending more time and giving you more attention. But he also knows he's lost your trust.

Read your last post. Even if he is 110% devoted to you now, there is no guarantee that you won't kick drop his ass to the curb any minute.

Trust is earned the first time around. Once lost, it has to be given back. That doesn't happen overnight, and it doesn't happen through conversation.

He'll be hedging his position. He wants to prove to you that he's worthy of being taken back. At the same time, he'll be scared shitless of rejection and payback.

The bottom line is that no one can tell you whether you should or should not give him another chance. You are the only person who knows your relationship intimately, and the only person who has to live with the decision, good or bad.

My only advice is that he's not the first man to cheat and he won't be the last. Everybody makes mistakes. What is the big picture and does that picture make you happy?

 

[Pompal 09.]

Excellent response, you sound cool and rational.
It's good you don't actually read his email and you're fine with his fishing trips, you still have respect and faith in him. I think the trust will continue to slowly grow back.

He's a lucky guy to have you and I suspect he realizes it.

 

[cupcake41]

You're right he is scared of payback. He's told me he expects I will cheat on him. I told him that's unfair because I've never done anything to warrant that. I won't cheat on him to hurt him the way he hurt me because I have more respect for myself than that and I couldn't live with myself if I did that. I have to be able to look at myself in the mirror and I've never cheated in any way on anyone and I'm not about to start now. I do know he's not the first to cheat and many women have as well. I know there were problems that led up to the cheating that were just as much my fault as his (although the actual cheating is all him). I do hope the trust can come back and I kind of think in time it can. Every time I start to think he won't do it again I stop myself because I always thought he would never do that to begin with. I don't want to be a door mat, one of those nieve women who keep taking back a chronic cheater. Thank you for your response...I do think the big picture with us as an intact family is what would make me the happiest. I guess time is what it'll take to be sure.



I don't know about the faith in him part but I hope you're right about the trust growing back. I also hope he knows he's lucky because I don't think he has any idea what his life could be like if I was a different woman. But I suspect that he wouldn't be around now if I tried to keep him on a leash. LOL
Thanks again Auggie!
(your comments seem to make me feel better)

 

[IRev. Albert Einstein]

K:

I'll try and address your response point by point:
1) You said (in a way that indicates he wasn't anything before you) that when you met, he was living in a basement and that you got him to buy a home etc. Well, since he's in his 30's now, that means he was 14+/- when he was living in a basement. NO shit. lol. I lived in my parent's basement when I was 14 up until 20. SO really, that isn't any real bonus in your favour.
2) Unplanned pregnancy. Your habit of not taking pills is a cop out plain and simple. You say he was a father and husband in his 20's but your habit of not taking pills is childish. Especially since it was BCPs!!! If a couple decides on a method of birth control, in this case it was the pill, then the onus is on the party whose form it is (if you said "we're only using condoms" then the onus is on him.).

No, women don't get themselves pregnant alone, BUT they do take steps to try and trap a guy. For example: not taking the pill when they should. I've even read about cases where women poke holes in the condom (a pin hole through the center is undetectable), or there was one case where a guy caught his GF siphoning his jizz out of the condom with a turkey baster. I'm not saying you did this, but obviously if your partner thought you were protected then he wouldn't worry so much.

And for the record, it isn't solely the responsibility of the woman, but when the couple decides the method of birthcontrol is the pill, then yes, the onus IS on the woman to take the fricken pill. To expand on that, you too could have used spermicidal foam, a diaphram, etc.

Really, from the sounds of it, while you say you'd raise the kid on your own etc, you probably knew he'd do the right thing didn't you? You probably knew he wouldn't simply just walk away. In fact, he is legally obligated to support you and the child whether you say no or not. So really, your promises were empty. You can't just release a guy from responsibility by clicking your heels together three times....

3) His family renting. Well, I don't know the situation but MILLIONS of people only rent and never own their own home. There's nothing wrong with that and in some cases, it is preferable to owning. There is a lot of expenses related to home ownership and many do not have the means or the wherewithall to handle it.

To me, and this is just my opinion, you seem to have this feeling of self-importance in his family. How you seem to think you have this dramatic impact on them.

I don't know about other guys but I for one couldn't live with a woman who walked around with the attitude "you would be nothing without me". That's just the gist of what I get from your posts....
4) As RAWD said, the trust is gone and may never return. That in and of itself is reason enough IMO to leave. Checking up on him is NOT going to help you, him, or the family.

No, it isn't a copout and yes the divorce rate is high but in this particular case, you're obviously working on it and it isn't working. You said so yourself, you don't trust him and might not ever.

Your case isn't a simple: I've grown and want to leave, he cheated on you. THAT is a good reason to leave and I'm not sure if you're aware, but getting a divorce isn't as simple or easy as you make it out to be. There's a HIGH cost to doing it and the division of property is a long drawn out process (in most cases). Heck you hear about custody battles all the time. You make it seem like it is as easy as ordering a double double from timmies.....

Now if you had come on here and said "I don't trust him now because he cheated, but I know eventually I will learn to trust him again" then I'd say yeah, keep at it. But when you say openly you don't know if you ever will, then that right there speaks volumes.

To me, and with no desire to insult, it does seem like you're enjoying making him pay for his cheating. You keep posting that he's trying, but are you? IMO checking up on him is not trying. In fact, to me, that seems like the complete opposite. Plus you've mentioned a couple of times how he misses her. I think you are actually enjoying that.

As for him missing her, wtf? That means he still has feelings for her and if he does, how can he be committed to you and the family yet harbour feelings for the women he cheated with?

SOrry, I still agree with the family who say this relationship is over and was the minute he stuck his dick inside another woman. I think the best think for you is to split amicably while you still can and move on with both your lives.

I have read and heard many times that the kids KNOW exactly what's going on and by staying together, from the sounds of it, is only doing more harm than good at this point. You say he's spending more time with them now than he ever did. While they probably are happy because of it I can't help but wonder if they're thinking: ok, wtf is going on? He never used to be around this much...what happened?

Back to "I hope so..." now it seems like the reason he isn't sure isn't because of HIS feelings. The way it sounds now is that it isn't up to him to want to or not, it's up to YOU. I bet in the back of his mind he's thinking he's doing everything he can to make this work but somehow that isn't enough. The uncertainly lies in whether or not YOU can move on. To me, it really sounds like you can't.

The term "you can't beat a dead horse" really comes to mind in this case.....



Ok, you posted this while I was writing my diatribe lol. This is the first I've read and that is at least a little more encouraging. Why do you stop yourself? That in and of itself is and will prevent you from achieving your "big picture happiness".

The ONLy way this marriage will survive is for you to get over it. It won't work otherwise because if you keep thinking in the back of your mind that he WILL cheat again, he'll realize this and eventually he will......

 

[Pompal 09.]

Like most guys, he's proved that he can be tempted. I think it's unlikely he'll do it again unless the marriage falters in other areas - if you lose interest in sex for instance.
You've shown that bringing in an escort for sex is okay as long as there isn't an emotional attachment involved. Would you do that again, or was it out of desperation for a solution for you?

You've also shown that you'll do what you feel is right for yourself, if he asked for you to have an abortion you'd have left him and raised a child on your own.
I think you're strong enough to make that kind of decision again if he cheats on you and I applaud that kind of courage.

 

[venky]

If he cheats on her again and she sticks with him? Holy crap she'd deserve a swift kick in the ass if she did......

 

[just me and my opinion]

Temptation is everywhere.

There's a big difference loving someone and being in love with someone.

 

[DemonBookLover]

^^^ dude, you always cut right to the point......in a better way than I lol.....

 

[Andy D]

I'm not sure if you just like to aruge/debate/cause grief or you're not really understanding what I'm writing and I should probably just stop responding to you but I will anyways.

I never said the trust WOULDN'T come back, I said I don't know. I've never been in this exact situation before. When I was cheated on as a teen I dumped the guys ass immediatly. It wasn't worth working on the relationships to me. I feel he is worth the effort and I do love him. Do I totally trust him now? Absolutly not, will I trust him again? I hope so. I have no idea how it'll play out. I am trying.

Have I done anything to change the relationship or am I putting it all on him? I am trying my hardest. There were things he didn't like before, I gained a lot of weight when I had our son. I've lost 50lbs since the beginning of September. I used to get angry very easily, I now take things in stride. Before I react to something I ask myself how important is it? If it's something broken I remember it can be replaced. If it can't be replaced I remind myself it wasn't done on purpose, he didn't want to break it any more than I wanted it broken. I haven't mentioned EVERYTHING that's being done in the relationship because really it isn't all relevent to what's being discussed. I am defending him saying he is trying to make the relationship work because it's his attitude and feelings that are the main discussion, not mine.

It's not a cop out to say I'm bad with taking pills. When it's not relevent to him in any way I forget the pills like if I get a bladder infection. I leave giving the kids medicine up to him because I just don't remember. If I was telling him to stop nagging when he asked if I took the pill and didn't bother to tell him then it would be trapping. He knew I was awful at it and the only reason I ever went on them was because I was in so much pain every month, the pills lesson that. I never took them as a birth control method and we did continue to use condoms when I went on them. I didn't get better at taking the pills, he just didn't like the condoms. I haven't been on the pill for over a decade and he still isn't using condoms. He doesn't want any more children but he isn't doing anything to prevent it still. He always knew what he was doing and should have acted like I wasn't on the pill and I told him so at the time. I won't take full responsibility for that. He also knew I wanted children and 'tho I never did anything on purpose to get pregnant I wasn't going to be upset if it happened.

I NEVER said he'd be nothing without me. Your interpretation of my statements leads me to believe that you really don't like women. I simply said he changed in some ways because of being with me. I too changed in some ways because of being with him. When we moved in together he was 18 and had been living on his own for a few years. He didn't live with his parents but I lived with mine. I was 25 and had never moved out of the house. He moved out at 15. He was renting a room not living in his parents basement. I never put down that his family didn't own an house, I was simply stating a fact. They rented. They could have bought a house but didn't see any point. I get along really well with his family and over the years have been closer to them than he has. I don't know why you think I'm all high and mighty because if I thought I was so much better then him/them why the hell would I associate myself with them never mind pick him to be the person spend the rest of my life with. I have never looked down on him in any way, I actually look up to him in a lot of ways. He is much more independant than I could ever be. He is a harder worker than I ever was and he is usually much more forgiving and probably a little nicer to others than I am.
As far as divorce goes, I never said it was financially or even emotionally easy. I said that working to make a marriage can be harder. We wouldn't have any of the problems with custody or splitting the property or anything like that. We had everything split and the first thing I did when I kicked him out was ask him what days/nights he wants the kids. I always told him I would never take the kids away from him and actually EXPECTED him to be a part of their lives no matter what happened between us. I stand by that. I hate when women use the children as pawns to get back at ex spouses.
I don't think anyone would be able to just forgive and forget so soon after what happened. I caught him in August, mid september he dumped her (he was living in the basement of our house and still seeing her for a month) and then mid to late October when we decided to give it a try. Once again, I hope I can get over this but I can't predict the future. I don't know for sure. I don't know where you get that I CAN'T.
You're reading stuff into what I write. Just because I don't state something doesn't mean it isn't there. I'm only discussing what's being discussed, not making a documentary of our relationship.
Our kids know to some extent what's been going on and they want us together and are happier now than they were before any of this happened. My son never really bonded with his father because he spent most of his time fishing. Now, because I made him take the kids for weekends and evenings while we were apart, they have gotten closer than they ever have. If our marriage doesn't make it at least my son has a father that he loves and enjoys spending time with now.

What it boils down to is that obviously I love him very much and I am in love with him. If I wasn't I wouldn't bother to try to make the marriage work and I wouldn't want to forgive. I don't need him here to survive or even be happy. I want him here and having a good marriage with him would make me happier.

 

[Pompal 09.]

oh and by the way, he wouldn't be donig what he is today if he wasn't with me. He couldn't have quit his job and started his own business without my (financial) support. Not to say he wouldn't be doing ok, just he wouldn't be self employed and enjoying all the freedoms that come with that unless he met and moved in with another female that was in the same position as I was in and was willing to support him while he tried to start a business. That's a fact. He wasn't making enough money to support his business let alone himself when he started. I paid for everything plus I did all the paperwork that needed to be done in the evenings after work. I've done all the banking, gst remittances, payroll, payroll tax remittances, end of year taxes, billing...everything for him all along. I even registered the business on his behalf. That's not self importance, that's teamwork.

I also wouldn't be where I am without him. I wouldn't have the children, I wouldn't be able to be a stay at home mom, I may not have a house. Once again, teamwork.

 

[DeeJay]

Don't let tboy get to you, at least he's challenging you and making you think about your situation from a different perspective.

He likes to extrapolate a fact and stretch it beyond recognition and truth then throw it back at you, it's his role on the board.

 

[muncie birder]

LOL I've noticed that. He's not getting to me at all. I am confident in my position, in who I am and what I am saying. Just not all that confident in how my husbands words should be interpreted :arf: which is why I started this thread in the first place. I don't mind responding because as you said it makes me think the situation out more and hearing (reading) myself defend my relationship gives me more confidence that I'm doing the right thing trying to make it work.
Also it confirms that this is what I really want. I'm not second guessing my decisions because I'm being challenged. I guess I owe tboy a big thank you!

 

[Robby]

You're welcome....

But to answer your question, there are a LOT of women I don't like in the least.....in fact I could say I positively hate them. Just like some men, I like some, hate others. That's the way of life, you can't love everyone! One thing that many here don't get about me: I will not treat women any differently than men. I believe in 100% equality across the board. Every time a woman starts with some stereotypical female BS, I will call them on it. Gen thinks that's misogyny, I call that equality. In reference to that your attitude about the pills kills me. It is almost like you think he had more responsibility than you for you becoming pregnant and your excuse "he knows I am lousy with pills" is a cop out plain and simple. That's like saying a guy can cheat because hey, he likes fucking women and it is up to the wife to prevent him from doing that.......sorry, doesn't work for him, and it doesn't work for you either.

Back to the "he wouldn't be where he is today without me". Seriously, that is coming through in spades here so I wonder if that's getting to him too? I tell you (again) I couldn't live with a woman who acted like that. I'm sure you've benefitted by his success so it's not like you only did HIM this big favour, you did it for yourself and your kids too. To me, you're throwing it in his face.

Would he be in a different place? assuredly. Would it be better or worse? No one knows but one thing I can be sure of: if this attitude is being noticed by him? It ain't helping matters and you can take that to the bank......

As for predicting the future: I never asked you to. The thing you have to realize is that up until that last post, you never indicated in any way shape or form that it might be possible to forgive him. Up until that point it was all mistrust, don't trust, can't trust......

 

[corncake38]

I don't expect to be treated any differently than men. Maybe you're just not a people person. That's fine.

The pill thing... as I said before I never took it as a form of birth control and he used condoms for years while I was on the pill. We both knew me taking the pill was not dependable. Was it all on him? No, he never once bought condoms for us. I was the one that kept us in supply at all times. I ended up throwing a full box of them away because he stopped using them and they had expired and then bought more in case he wanted to start again. Our son isn't even the issue here, we are both very happy to have him, my husband spent 2 weeks in the hospital with me when I had him and he was thrilled to be a dad. That was never an issue between us.
As far as the "he wouldn't be where he is without me" issue. If you read my posts, what I actually wrote, not what you want to read you'll see that I know I wouldn't be where I am without him. I came right out and stated that fact. I don't walk around the house telling him he'd be nothing without me in fact I don't think that's ever been discussed between us. I am simply giving information on here because none of you know the situation we are in and have been in. He knows I have always felt lucky to be with him. We've made eachother what we are today...good and bad. I know he would have been successful at whatever he did because it's just who he is....he is a very hard worker and determined to do what he wants. He couldn't have started a business if he didn't have an income to support himself while starting. The first year his income was in the negative (as I believe most businesses are). He simply couldn't have done it financially without a partner. He didn't have anyone else who was in the situation to be able to back him up. I happened to have been that partner. Maybe he would have been with someone other than me to do it with, I don't know. If you reread my previous post I believe I actually came right out and stated that.

As far as not indicating if I would be able to forgive him I don't think I ever said anything about forgiving in any way. I said I don't know if I'll ever fully trust him again...two different things. I have forgiven him or I wouldn't have taken him back. I don't know if the trust will come back 100% but that is not saying I can't ever trust him...I hope I will be able to...I just don't know. Trust was there and he broke it. It has to be earned back or maybe it just slowly returns on it's own. I don't really know I just hope we can get past this. If I didn't think it was possible I wouldn't waste my time, energy or emotions on trying.
Obviously I'm not going to be able to give a detailed history of our relationship, a 14 year rundown of what we've been through together and what we've done for each other. I think that, for most people, it's a given that there's a lot more to the story than is posted. I am posting/responding with relevent facts and if you think there's something missing (my appreciation of what he does for me) it's because it's not part of the discussion.

 

[Raqhim]

I had asked him for a few weeks afterwards if he wanted to try it again and he didn't. It was a lot of $$$ for a short time. He had said maybe in a few months...spread it out and not spend all the money in a short time. We almost made arrangements with a non professional but when we were going to do it I was not able (female reasons) and then as I thought about it more I realized I wouldn't be comfortable with just anyone...the risk of a non professional was too much for me.
It hasn't come up again in discussion. I decided that I had asked enough times...if he wanted to do it again he would ask me. Until then the subject is closed. When/if he mentions it I guess we'll play it by ear. I'm not against it.
He had asked me if I wanted to do it to make the marriage work, I told him if anything it would probably kill all chances of the marriage working. I wanted to try despite that. Just to experience it. I figured if we weren't going to be together anyways it wouldn't hurt anything and I probably wouldn't feel comfortable doing that with anyone else. It could have been the last chance to try something like that.

 

[Sylvia]

Oh I'm a people person, just not all people. Anyone who seems to get along with everyone isn't being honest with themselves, or others......I don't hide my dislike of some people behind niceties or platitudes.......and your response is typical: I don't love all women so I'm not a people person...lol...yeah right.

Actually, forgiving and trusting are part and parcel of the same issue. You cannot trust someone who has wronged you because you can't forgive them for what they've done. You can't forgive someone yet not trust them because if you really had forgiven them, trust or mistrust wouldn't be an issue.

I don't think trust is a percentage. Either you trust someone (in this case, with fidelity or infidelity) or you don't. You can't say "I trust him completely as long as I can check his emails....". That isn't trust, that is MIStrust.

Don't get me wrong here, I think he's scum actually. Sure to err is human but not when it comes to fidelity. There is no reason good enough to break one's vows. If he was having issues with you due to weight, no sexaul contact, whatever, that is the time for therapy not going out and getting some strange. The second his dick went inside this other women, he forfeited his marriage IMO. My opinion was and still is he should be kicked to the curb......unless of course you agreed to an open marriage like some have, then that's a whole 'nother story.

 

[Gregg]

and by the way. When I helped him start a business it was a couple of months into our relationship, years before we had any kids. I did it for him and him alone. There was no way to tell if our relationship would last. There were no thought of marriage or children, I didn't know if we would last 6 months at that time.
He was unhappy at his job and he walked out because his boss was an a$$hole. Rather than having to go back to him (which is what HE believed his only other option was) he wanted to work for himself. I supported that decision mentally, physically, financially...in every way.
He was 18 and we had known eachother just months...don't for one minute think that I was doing that for my own future...I just simply cared for him so much I wanted him to be happy.

 

[Cutie001]

That may be all well and good but here it is, 14 yrs later and you're still bringing it up......just saying is all......